WiTP: Returned to Sender

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Aaah, X-Files... Those were the days...

geh - now Nik is "logging" the subject header of other threads!![X(]

[Nikademus]

Like Cancer man.....call me Log-man. (beats getting Lung Cancer)

wait a minute.....wasn't there a character in Twin Peaks who carried around a LOG? [:D]

[anarchyintheuk]

That was the log lady. On a related note, I like cherry pie.

If you want to confuse someone, show them a film by David Lynch.

[Odox]

Gentlemen:

Please forgive me. My earlier post concerning returning WiTP unopened apparently raised both questions and ire. Perhaps a little clarification is in order. Quite likely these responses are simply the result of one or more misunderstandings.

In the first place, I am delighted to have received so many responses, and from people from whom I've come to hold in regard: Nomad, Mogami, mantill, niceguy2005, Mynok, Nikademus, rtrapasso, and Terminus. I also owe a debt of gratitude to moses, Sneer, Spooky, Tom Hunter, Cap_and_Gown, Oleg Mastruko, pauk, and irrelevant (and I'm sure many others whose nicks escape me at present) for their help in understanding this game.

I initially ordered WiTP last week, before I saw the announcement concerning a 1.8 patch and a possible WiTP II. As I've said, I consider a WiTP II to be reasonable from both a business and practicality standpoint; and I believe it would be much wiser to have this available in 6-8 months, and not the 2-3 years as one poster has suggested (niceguy2005).

In all likelihood I simply failed to heap sufficient praise of the game in order to make my critiques more palatable to those less inclined than myself to criticism of it. However, it would be a mistake to assume from my earlier post that I am inclined towards cynicism regarding WiTP. Far from it.

Again, most games of this type are going to have patches and fixes as a matter of course. What concerned me, however, was that a game of such scope and complexity would begin to devolve into an endless series of repairs in order to make it reasonably playable. I believe I see this occurring with WiTP. It's fine to have a game load from disk and have to come back later to download new features and the occasional patch. At some point though, it ceases to be a game from disk needing fixes downloaded and becomes an enormous and ongoing download headache that also happens to require a disk. I think it's crossed that line.

To those of you that feel I am being too 'perfectionistic' or somehow 'unrealistic' in my expectations for smooth game function, again all I can say is that nothing could be further from the truth; because unlike some of you (apparently) I believe it was unrealistic to expect them to get it right the first time given the game's enormous scope and complexity. I have a great deal of appreciation for what they've done and for what they've tried to do in WiTP. It is this appreciation that prompts both my admiration and my criticism. If it appears to some that I'm ignoring WiTP for the obvious achievement that it is (and retaining only criticism) this is entirely unintentional I assure you.

Frankly, with a game of this magnitude, I see us all as still playtesters. I anticipate a finished product substantially more polished and grand. This at least is the game's potential, and I can find no reason as yet to abandon this view.

I'm pleased one poster (mantill) has been able to enjoy the game for over 600 hours thus far. In the last six weeks I've spent very nearly 300 hours just running this initial assessment, this initial perusal. I noticed a few of you have begun to use spreadsheets and flowcharts also, and this is encouraging. I myself haven't even begun the most basic note-taking as of yet; but it is my habit to accumulate many hundreds of such pages and many thousands of hours of testing before I usually enter into even the briefest PBEM. I hope that suffices in convincing some of you I'm not at all 'lost' to WiTP. I'm merely waiting for the clunkiness in the game to be ironed out, observing some of you doing the testing and carrying on the strategy discussions I would otherwise be doing while I wait. I have certainly appreciated your contributions.

I especially want to thank those of you who responded to my concerns in such a courteous manner. I encourage such things, and I look forward to more such exchanges in the future.

Respectfully,

Odox

[Terminus]

Very nicely put, Odox (and believe me, I mean that); sorry you don't like what you see, but that's most certainly your prerogative.

[Ron Saueracker]

Why is this guy a troll all of a sudden?

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: Odox


I initially ordered WiTP last week, before I saw the announcement concerning a 1.8 patch and a possible WiTP II. As I've said, I consider a WiTP II to be reasonable from both a business and practicality standpoint; and I believe it would be much wiser to have this available in 6-8 months, and not the 2-3 years as one poster has suggested (niceguy2005).

Odox

I don't usually make predictions but I would bet a years salary that NOBODY would be happy with a WITP II that was finished in such a small amount of time. Alpha and Beta testing(s) will likely take longer than you "think" the whole developement process will take.

But if you're right I will be HAPPY.

Flipper

[rtrapasso]

Odox:

believe me when i say i have SERIOUS reservations about this game - however, it has given me more hours of fascinating game time than anything i've ever encountered before, esp. once i got into PBEM. If anything, the game is TOO engrossing, and i can see if you want to avoid that - but from your comments, this does not seem to be the case (since you are spending large amounts of time just evaluating the game). I suspect once you get into playing PBEM, you will love it.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Odox:

believe me when i say i have SERIOUS reservations about this game - however, it has given me more hours of fascinating game time than anything i've ever encountered before, esp. once i got into PBEM. If anything, the game is TOO engrossing, and i can see if you want to avoid that - but from your comments, this foes not seem to be the case (since you are spending large amounts of time just evaluating the game). I suspect once you get into playing PBEM, you will love it.

I'm hooked and I'm a critic![;)]

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Odox:

believe me when i say i have SERIOUS reservations about this game - however, it has given me more hours of fascinating game time than anything i've ever encountered before, esp. once i got into PBEM. If anything, the game is TOO engrossing, and i can see if you want to avoid that - but from your comments, this does not seem to be the case (since you are spending large amounts of time just evaluating the game). I suspect once you get into playing PBEM, you will love it.

I'm hooked and I'm a critic![;)]

What?!![X(] Ron, you're critical of the game?!! Say it ain't so!![:D]

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I'm hooked and I'm a critic![;)]

Be still my heart...

Flipper

[ny59giants]

I'm hooked and I'm a critic!


_____________________________

I shouldn't tell you this, Mandrake, but you're a good officer. It looks like we're in a shooting war.

I think Ron should change his "Silent Service" fan boy to a BB fan boy.

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I have an idea. Just for giggles someone post the "Perfect" game they own and then everyone else post all the bugs and flaws from their experiance with that title.

Great idea. Let's start with 'Minesweeper'...

[Odox]

Gentlemen:

Once again I want to thank you for your most welcome responses.

Three other people that have been of inestimable help to me in exploring WiTP have been esteban, PzB and el cid again. I have no idea how their names escaped me when I first posted.

Warmly,

Odox

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I have an idea. Just for giggles someone post the "Perfect" game they own and then everyone else post all the bugs and flaws from their experiance with that title.

MS Solitaire and MS Minesweeper (that both come with OS)? [:D]


Leo "Apollo11"

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Great idea. Let's start with 'Minesweeper'...

Damn... when I answered Mogami on 1st page of the thread you already overtook me on 2nd... [;)]


Leo "Apollo11"

[aletoledo]

Odox, I think there is a couple big points you're missing.
first of all you'll never see a WitPII appear in 6-8 months, not matter how much business sense it would mean, because software isn't created that quickly. considering they haven't really even started it, the soonest you'll see a possible finished 2nd edition would be probably 2 years from now. you're simply not going to find a better pacific ww2 game before that time either, so you'll have to be very patient and hope they actually do make the game at all, otherwise you're never going to play something like WitP in your lifetime.
second, the bugs you've read about are really an overexaggeration by the grognards of this forum. it really is the grumblings of a dieing breed of history buffs that won't accept anything less than a time machine. the game works and once you get used to it, is the best ww2 you'll probably ever play.

Hi, I have an idea. Just for giggles someone post the "Perfect" game they own and then everyone else post all the bugs and flaws from their experiance with that title.

I submit chess as the perfect game, but I'm not sure if I saw the last patch.

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: aletoledo
I submit chess as the perfect game, but I'm not sure if I saw the last patch.

I don't think its due out for about another hundred years. [;)]

[Mynok]

Chess was orphaned by the vendor a long time ago. Sad how companies just don't support their games! [:D]

[Nikademus]

I'm still holding the candle for Pacific Tide.....

[:'(]