OOB's

[von Shagmeister]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

what is the point of not likeing the use of the D-6 ? all it is in game terms is a C with a belly drop tank

the C (until upgraded) could only carry the 200 gallon ferry tank, and to be honest, I don't want to give a 200 gallon drop tank, as there was more hassle to it then just saying it shouldn't carry 200 gallons of fuel

I agree with the why and why the planes would be repaired and upgraded, but it was a pretty standard thing, Maint troops in the 40's are not the same as current day

I been waiting for this one

and the number of USAAF bomber a/c available for ops (32 per Group as opposed to the more normally flown 18-24)

why ?

a Bomber Squadron was 4 planes ? 6 planes ?

USAAF a/c variants isn't my strong point, I don't know ever little difference between each variant, my only concern was that the USAAF FGs would be operating a latter version of an a/c than they did in real life but as they are the same in game terms then it's not a problem.

USAAF Heavy bomber groups consisted of 4 Sqns of 8 a/c = 32 a/c but only 3 Sqns normally flew on a mission, the 4th Sqn was rested (and the Sqns rotated). Usual Sqn requirement for a mission was 6 a/c on an op, flying spares would fill in gaps left by early aborts. Hence normal group committment for a mission was 18 a/c (you must have seen the diagrams for a combat box (18 a/c)). If it was a maximum effort (1st Schweinfurt) a Sqn would try and operate all 8 a/c with the 4th Sqns from each group forming composite groups but this was the exception rather then the norm. 18 a/c group formations were the norm through 43 into 44 when the combat box structure was revised
when I believe the 4th Sqn was incorporated

[Hard Sarge]

ahhh, got to love the forum, get the post all written and poof, away it goes

in Nov of 43, the US changed the size of there squadrons

fighter squadrons went from 24 to 36 planes

this is were the A and B Groups came from, once a unit was up to strength, it had more planes and pilots then were needed or could be controlled in a normal mission, but as the planes were still needed, lets fly a 2nd group

most units had call signs and radio signs set for a C group, but I don't want to add these, as they were not full blown groups

I don't have all my notes sitting here, but the Bomber squadrons also increased at this time, which down the road, led to the A and B BG's being used

for the 47 (not trying to drag it out, just trying to understand)

in old game, we got the P-47C (which was out of production since Mar of 43) but in Sept 43, we get the P-47D-25 (which should not be out for another 8 months)

now the D that we did get, does upgrade it self over time to the final model, but over all, the only thing that changes is the drop tanks carried, nothing else

[von Shagmeister]

I don't have all my notes sitting here, but the Bomber squadrons also increased at this time, which down the road, led to the A and B BG's being used

That would tie in with the revison in Combat Box formations in 44. What was bomber Sqn establishment increased to?

[Hard Sarge]

I got to find where I put it, I will post it in the morning

[Speedysteve]

Guys,

If it helps i'll mail you BG raid sizes later on tonight/next few days? As i've found and mailed sarge BG's did expand from around November 1943.

Steven

[Hard Sarge]

find it and post it will ya

I found the info on the FG changes, but not the bombers

[Speedysteve]

Roger. Will go through the War Diary and look at what numbers groups are sending up.

[Hard Sarge]

look for something in Nov 43

"Ajax" sent the order

[Speedysteve]

Here we are guys. A lot of data here:

This is interesting from looking at BG numbers in November you can see which are flying A, B + C Formations IMO.

96BG is 1st to fly A, B + C Formations on 03/11/43 = 50 planes.

ALL of the other groups are flying 20-30 planes on normal missions.

Other interesting numbers to note:

26/11/43 - 351BG flys 38 planes, 379BG flys 37 planes, 96BG 43 planes,
388BG 43 planes

29/11/42 - 94BG 40 planes, 96BG 41 planes

01/12/43 - 351BG 36 planes

05/12/43 - 94BG 42 planes, 96BG 41 planes, 388BG 46 planes, 390BG 40
planes. As an example rest of the BG's flying 20-26 planes.

11/12/43 - 351BG 40 planes, 94BG 41 planes, 95BG 40 planes, 96BG 44
planes, 388BG 42 planes, 390BG 41 planes

13/12/43 - 303BG 40 planes, 379BG 43 planes, 384BG 38 planes, 94BG 41
planes, 388BG 40 planes, 95BG 43 planes, 96BG 38 planes

ETC ETC

Something to note. It seems thast 3rd Bomber Division groups are the
one's predominantly flying A, B + C formations. 5 out of 7 BG's
attached to this division are flying A, B + C Formations at this time. At least I
am basing this on numbers of bombers flying.


Right now in 44 it's trickier. Freeman doesn't list numbers per BG but
numbers flown per bomb division. The best I can do is divide the total
flown for the BD by the number of BG's flown.

Looking at October 43 averages first:

02/10/43 - 22 bombers per BG flown (16 x BG's)

04/10/43 - 20 bombers per BG flown (18 x BG's)

08/10/43 - 21 bombers per BG flown (19 x BG's)

09/10/43 - 19 bombers per BG flown (20 x BG's)

10/10/43 - 16 bombers per BG flown (19 x BG's)

14/10/43 - 18 bombers per BG flown (18 x BG's)

20/10/43 - 14 bombers per BG flown (20 x BG's)

Now onto November averages:

03/11/43 - 27 bombers per BG flown (21 x BG's)

05/11/43 - 24 bombers per BG flown (21 x BG's)

07/11/43 - 20 bombers per BG flown (6 x BG's)

11/11/43 - 21 bombers per BG flown (16 x BG's)

13/11/43 - 19 bombers per BG flown (14 x BG's)

16/11/43 - 19 bombers per BG flown (20 x BG's)

26/11/43 - 25 bonbers per BG flown (25 x BG's)

29/11/43 - 21 bombers per BG flown (17 x BG's)

30/11/43 - 20 bombers per BG flown (19 x BG's)

Onto January as an example:

04/01/44 - 25 bombers per BG flown (23 x BG's)

05/01/44 - 20 bombers per BG flown (26 x BG's)

07/01/44 - 22 bombers per BG flown (23 x BG's)

11/01/44 - 26 bombers per BG flown (26 x BG's). FIRST USE Of B24 H2S
equipped aircraft.

14/01/44 - 23 bombers per BG flown (24 x BG's)

21/01/44 - 32 bombers per BG flown (25 x BG's)

24/01/44 - 56 bombers per BG flown (10 x BG's)

29/01/44 - 33 bombers per BG flown (26 x BG's)

30/01/44 - 31 bombers per BG flown (25 x BG's)

Onto April as an example:

01/04/44 - 26 bombers per BG flown (17 x BG's)

08/04/44 - 32 bombers per BG flown (21 x BG's)

09/04/44 - 23 bombers per BG flown (24 x BG's)

10/04/44 - 24 bombers per BG flown (30 x BG's)

11/04/44 - 30 bombers per BG flown (31 x BG's)

13/04/44 - 22 bombers per BG flown (28 x BG's)

18/04/44 - 25 bombers per BG flown (31 x BG's)

19/04/44 - 26 bombers per BG flown (30 x BG's)

20/04/44 - 27 bombers per BG flown (31 x BG's)

22/04/44 - 26 bombers per BG flown (31 x BG's)

24/04/44 - 25 bombers per BG flown (30 x BG's)

25/04/44 - 21 bombers per BG flown (26 x BG's)

26/04/44 - 23 bombers per BG flown (26 x BG's)

27/04/44 - 35 bombers per BG flown (31 x BG's)

29/04/44 - 22 bombers per BG flown (31 x BG's)