Ground Combat and Supply - TESTED!!!

[treespider]

As a final chapter in this thread...Manila finally fell on April 2nd....two weeks after March 18th. My system for the reduction of isolated bases paid immediate and quantifiable dividends.

Ground combat at Manila
Japanese Shock attack
Attacking force 153595 troops, 963 guns, 164 vehicles, Assault Value = 2236
Defending force 48384 troops, 273 guns, 144 vehicles, Assault Value = 1159
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1
Japanese max assault: 3973 - adjusted assault: 2482
Allied max defense: 970 - adjusted defense: 453
Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 1)
Japanese forces CAPTURE Manila base !!!
Japanese ground losses:
5798 casualties reported
Guns lost 28
Vehicles lost 10
Allied ground losses:
81202 casualties reported
Guns lost 212
Vehicles lost 98

[Sneer]

my Chungking assault force , result in a few hours
all is ready 100k free supplies in nearest bases
time to pray

[Sneer]

dices ?/? I see regularity in getting strongly penalized when in assault mode
if you see supply status before and after you will see supply is not a problem so it probably was not a problem earlier
anybody ?
why ?



Ground combat at Chungking

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 758431 troops, 7452 guns, 1166 vehicles, Assault Value = 14986

Defending force 220786 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7061

Japanese max assault: 15042 - adjusted assault: 4563

Allied max defense: 6185 - adjusted defense: 5621

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 3)


Japanese ground losses:
58752 casualties reported
Guns lost 779
Vehicles lost 51

Allied ground losses:
5753 casualties reported

[Sneer]

bombarding is not an issue
i see 250-500 casualties per day but their number is slowly moving up
i don't see supply at chungking - constant airfiield bombardment rarely score supply hit

MATRIX ! WHERE ARE YOU!

[pauk]

that leaves three possibilities, IMHO:

1. ground combat with big numbers is screwed

2. devs introduced new routine which penaltize attacker in such huge battles

3. defender bonus (urban terain, forts) also affects on attacker adjusted assault value...

[Sneer]

no HQ problem
no supply problem
no leader problem
what else to check ?

[pauk]

your nerves[;)][:D]

sorry, but i don't think there is anything left for checking...

[Sneer]

my nerves are weak -
it is 7th month after cutting off last chinase base
for 5 months they don't have any single piece of heavy weapon
any such historical examples ?

[Andy Mac]

As to why your value is lowered I have nothing to add I know not.

As the allies in this situation I would turn to my air and round the clock destroy the enemy with a massive ground support campaign but I am not sure the Japanese can do this without prejudicing the supply situation at the front given how large the army is there now or that in fact you are not already conductng this offensive.

The occasion where I lost Chungking after a long siege (I started at lvl 9 forts) ended after my opponent stopped Dalotas bringing in supplies (that Raver cannot do because of the range anyway) and basically the whole IJAAF was on ground attack for weeks before each attack.

It took a year of a siege (Chungking fell June 43) but it did fall eventually.

I am not sure if this will assist or if you are already doing the massive ground attack offensive.

[frank1970]

Sneer, have you thought about reducing your forces there?
Move out at least half of your units, bring them to India or whereever you might need them.
The counterattack is your only chance to effectively reduce the defenders. Only when he attacks he is penalized (no city bonus, no forts etc) you don´t need Chungking, use it as training are for your airforce and let it be good. You loose to much, it isn´t worth it.
The more units he gets, the less supply they´ll have. You only have to stay and wait. China is finished.

[Sneer]

i want to know why it doesn't work
biggest price is already paid - i had bold plans for tha troops
with china not finished i will not move CEA units out of china  - it is similar rule as with kwantung

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Frank

Sneer, have you thought about reducing your forces there?
Move out at least half of your units, bring them to India or whereever you might need them.
The counterattack is your only chance to effectively reduce the defenders. Only when he attacks he is penalized (no city bonus, no forts etc) you don´t need Chungking, use it as training are for your airforce and let it be good. You loose to much, it isn´t worth it.
The more units he gets, the less supply they´ll have. You only have to stay and wait. China is finished.

I don´t think Raver will be dumb enough to try a counterattack. Even if the troop numbers were even.

[DFalcon]

I doubt this is a supply issue. I think the adjustment is due to deffensive fire. Units are suffering so many casualties that they are not making thier assault check. You will probably run into this when ever there are huge battles.

You are very close to getting the 1 to 1. If I was a gambling man my money would not be on the chinese.

Chungking is a special hex, take that and the war in China is over. I would not like to see that made easier.

[Sneer]

ORIGINAL: DFalcon


I doubt this is a supply issue. I think the adjustment is due to deffensive fire. Units are suffering so many casualties that they are not making thier assault check. You will probably run into this when ever there are huge battles.

You are very close to getting the 1 to 1. If I was a gambling man my money would not be on the chinese.

Chungking is a special hex, take that and the war in China is over. I would not like to see that made easier.

if true it would be biggest nonsense seen in this game
after 7 month of siege and without even single gun

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Sneer

dices ?/? I see regularity in getting strongly penalized when in assault mode
if you see supply status before and after you will see supply is not a problem so it probably was not a problem earlier
anybody ?
why ?



Ground combat at Chungking

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 758431 troops, 7452 guns, 1166 vehicles, Assault Value = 14986

Defending force 220786 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7061

Japanese max assault: 15042 - adjusted assault: 4563

Allied max defense: 6185 - adjusted defense: 5621

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 3)


Japanese ground losses:
58752 casualties reported
Guns lost 779
Vehicles lost 51

Allied ground losses:
5753 casualties reported

Here is my suggestion -

Day 1 - Bombard with Artillery
Day 2 - Bombard with Everyone
Day 3- Bombard with Artillery
Day 4 - Deliberate Attack
Day 5 - Bombard with Artillery

- Go to Day 1

While all of this is taking place, bomb his airbase, resources and HI. On day 4 order half of your planes to bomb his units and the other half to continue their assigned airfield or city attacks.

Continuously monitor his unmodified Assault Value.

The important thing to remember is to stand down everyone except the artillery on Day 3.

[Sneer]

i'm losing 25% strenght per attack without inflicting losses to enemy
hoe can i sustain such operation?

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Sneer

i'm losing 25% strenght per attack without inflicting losses to enemy
hoe can i sustain such operation?

Your losing 25 % strength? I bet you are just suffering disablements that will repair over the course of the 5 day cycle...

The important thing to check is the Bombardment attack and the defenders Assault Value after the assault - it will give you an indication of how much actual damage you inflicted in the Assault.

Ignore your values...you have done everything that you can to try and maximize your assault value.

[Sneer]

yes - mostly disabled but
they repair 200-350 AV per day
i lost 4k as you may count I need 12-16 days to regain strenght  but last days are usually slower so 15 days is absolutely min.
you had lower losses so you were able to repair faster
i've got chinase army reinforcement and bought one kwantung unit it should boost AV a lot
 
but.....
why it doesn't work[8|] 

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Sneer

yes - mostly disabled but
they repair 200-350 AV per day
i lost 4k as you may count I need 12-16 days to regain strenght  but last days are usually slower so 15 days is absolutely min.
you had lower losses so you were able to repair faster
i've got chinase army reinforcement and bought one kwantung unit it should boost AV a lot

but.....
why it doesn't work[8|] 

On the day of the attack your opponent's Assault value was 7061 - What was it the day before? What was it the day after?

Your Assault value was 14986 the day of the Assault....What was it the day after?
Your math said you repair on average 300 AV per day and that it would take 12-16 days to heal? 14x300=4200. So I would figure your assault value to be c.10500 the next day. Is that accurate?

The other option in a very large battle like this, may be to break your units up into two assault groups and stagger their attacks such that Group A's Day 2 is Group B's Day 4. That way you are not giving the enemy any rest.

[Sneer]

see my both screenshots - one was day before and one day after
AV dropped from 13150 to 9170 / tanks move AV higher than nominal AV