Just got it

[Analog Kid]

Well after a nearly seven month wait, I got my computer fixed
And COTA is out I hope Im not repeating questions or observation
already posted. Been reading the forum for last couple of days since
I got all my computer working but mostly Ive been playing COTA

Also if you havent played HttR or COTA and are reading the forum to
see if you will like it. Please do not construe these remarks as 'the
game is no good'. HttR and COTA are the best wargames I have
ever played IMHO.

#1 While going thru the tutorial, and loading the saves provided, I
would lose my sound after a load or two. But I discoved that if I
used the 'Leave Game' button then load from main screen, rather
than load the save from inside the game the problem disappeared.
My computer or a bug?

#2 When a reinforcement arrives, the reattach button is not
accessiable. I must give an order before I can reattach. Makes for
a couple extra steps if I do want to reattach it. It adds to my CMD
Load. Which is already very low

#3 in the Sarantaporon: Tac Ex - Bde Day Attack it starts at night.
Having the map dark makes it hard to plan for me. Can the map be
lit for daylight until you press play?

#4 in the Sarantaporon: Tac Ex - Bde Day Attack the Ranger Bn does
a strange thing to me (not in every case, played it about 10 times and
it happened at least 3 times). I have it assualting up the hill and when
the line Coy rout or retreat past the Bn HQ, the HQ continues the assualt.
( see below ) Why does the HQ not stop and wait for the Line units to
come back or retreat with them? Now I have a theory, the HQ is rated
a 1 on combat power same as the Coy's, which if you look at the
numbers the HQ does not compare to the line Coy's at all. My theory
is that since they are rated the same combat power it acts as a line Coy.
Can it be rated at zero for combat power or can all other units be bumped
1? Or is my theory flawed?



#5 After bombarding then reselecting the unit from the FS tag, can
the bombard icon remain at the last place bombed? It would be easier
IMO to drag it where you want now or repeat bombard. A CMD load thing
again for me

#6 Sticking with Arty, if a Arty unit comes in as a reinforcement and I
dont want to move it or reattach it, how can I get it into the FS tab? Also
if you repostion the marker while bombarding or friendy in way msg,
can the timer pause rather than continue to run?

#7 Supply. If a unit is in a fairly contested attack or defend Ive noticed
that the resupply continues with most, if not all, of the supply column is
destroyed. These trucks are part of the base right? Does this not make the
supply base lose efficentency? Why would these truck drivers sucide like that?
Could they not wait till these units are not under fire?

#7a In this screen shot you see the base way, way south of the main body.
Does this not cause a inefficient suppy system? Also if supply is interdicted,
other than 100% distruction how come the Intel does not show where it
happened? This happened in one scenario to me, where I got alot of supply
column distruction msgs and had to run a unit down the road to discover
where the enemy unit was. Wouldnt the truck drivers report to the unit they
are supplying that they lost half our trucks here on arrival?



#8 Slope, If the slope is greater than 30 degs armor
cannot move over it unless by road? In this next screen shot I kept getting
'Unit X not progressing fast' or some such thing. I then found it at 63%!




#9 Ok last one When you select a map boss, all Units are highlighted.
This makes it difficult to see what units are attached to it and will move
with it . In HttR only units attached to it in AI control to be highlighted.
Again my personal CMD load

S! Analog Kid

[GoodGuy]

[1] I keep losing all sounds since HttR (in COTA too). In my experience, it appears if you keep loading/re-loading savegames (i.e. to search for a certain savegame) for some time. The "main menu" ship-around-thingy rarely works for me, as you can never tell when they disappear again, but they do [:@]. I have to restart the game each time to make sure it's "fixed".

[2] + [6] A unit coming in as reinforcement might "spawn" attached (hence no reinforcement button), so you might want to check if the command structure-display is set to "Sup" (Support)(button at the bottom bar) or to "Cmd" (Command)(to display subordinates/superiors). Then just select the reinforcements to check current superiors/subordinates (dark blue/green lines).
Regarding your arty unit: If you want it to be displayed in the FS tab, then you have to detach it, as only detached bombard units will get listed in the FS tab.
If you don't want to move such a unit (means if you don't want it to re-deploy somewhere else (time can be a real issue here)) just give it a rest order.....this will detach the unit (all orders given to a single unit on company level, or let's say on Bn level, will detach the unit/set of units in question).

[3] No.

[5] Well, interesting idea.....Since detached artys carry on with on-call duties, it would be even more interesting to get a switch for those units:

A simple switch: "on-call" (player AI), "no on-call" (player assigns bomb. missions for this unit, exclusively). Arty units which are not executing on-call duties could leave their task pointer on the last location that got bombarded....I guess this would work way better, with less "click-ology" and the "rest after bombard"-command would be a real killer here, if used in conjunction with a so-called "player bombardment-unit". The "rest"-switch should be moved to each and every bomb. unit, instead of being a global command (= more flexibility).

[Analog Kid]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy



[2] + [6] A unit coming in as reinforcement might "spawn" attached (hence no reinforcement button), so you might want to check if the command structure-display is set to "Sup" (Support)(button at the bottom bar) or to "Cmd" (Command)(to display subordinates/superiors). Then just select the reinforcements to check current superiors/subordinates (dark blue/green lines).
Regarding your arty unit: If you want it to be displayed in the FS tab, then you have to detach it, as only detached bombard units will get listed in the FS tab.
If you don't want to move such a unit (means if you don't want it to re-deploy somewhere else (time can be a real issue here)) just give it a rest order.....this will detach the unit (all orders given to a single unit on company level, or let's say on Bn level, will detach the unit/set of units in question).

Ok maybe I was not waiting long enough for them to move. They (reinf) seem to just sit at entry point and in HttR they came in un-attached. But if I gave them an order, then pressed reattach they moved out smartly

S!

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Analog Kid

Ok maybe I was not waiting long enough for them to move.

You would have to wait forever...hehe...
Check their status, go to the unit's tab: It says "waiting" and maybe "stopped" or "taking cover".......So, in fact, they're waiting for an order from the superior, as it just joined the frey without any new order (just assume that it only executed the imaginary order to transfer to this perimeter, and that it is awaiting new orders). Once you issue a new order to its superior, the attached reinf. would then be included in the planning/execution.

This can be a real pain, if you want a superior to include such a unit/force (reinforcements, already attached), as even a current attack/cumulation might be aborted/re-routed, instead of carrying on parts of (the most important) attacks.

This gives bad results sometimes (i.e. forces moving through strong enemy positions/forces), as the superior just decides to re-assemble and change the plan/attack.

Maybe another item for the wishlist.

[Analog Kid]

update, sorry if I started to nitpick in my first post

When I started to run thru the first tutorial, I got tired of minmizing ( love that feature BTW, the new UI is wonderful ) to read the PDF. So I went down to Kinko's and had them print out the Getting started, Advanced and Markshot's tips. Cost for just those in greyscale, with sprial binding came to nearly $20. Should have paid the extra $10 for the phyical shipment . I did not read much documentation in HttR just kind of jumped in and looked up stuff I didnt understand when needed. I think now that was a mistake, and I could have possiably got more out of the HttR experence had I done so. That is if the manual compares to COTA's .What a clear, concise and informative Document the Advanced Tutorial PDF is, probably the best Tutorial I have ever read for a computer game. The section titled Phase 2 - The Offense, pages 40-56, was especially helpful. If you want to understand the thought processes behind how to plan this is a great primer.

One thing I've noticed between HttR and COTA, is that in HttR I would play on the middle to the fastest speed. In COTA I find I'm playing at regular speed, only going to the middle speed when I got nothing to do. I'm also spending more time shooting arty, biting my nails and wishing for 'Gen Patton Slap a suborinate Button'

One last thing then I'll shut up Been playing wargames, like many here, from Avalon Hill/SPI/SSI days. From my 286 thru pentium socket 7 days, I bought alot of wargames for the computer and hated most of them, way to much micromangement at the Div/Corps level that I like most. Only 2 did I ever really enjoy, were sorta abstract in nature, Chris Crawford's Patton Strikes Back and Panzer General. I stopped buying wargames after playing Harpoon Naval Sim. I had a carrier task force, over 20 ships, tranisting from the North Sea into the Baltic sea. I guess I had placed a waypoint to close to the shore in the Denmark Straits and ran one side of the formation ( 6-8 ships ) aground. Now tell me, what ship Captain is going to allow his ship to ground like that? Pissed me off so bad I never bought another computer wargame again till HttR. A commander should never have to worry what a Private or a Second Lieutenant is doing, thats why Armies have Sergeants . To make a long story short, the Airborne Assault series is what I have been looking for. Sooo Arjuna, when's Battle of the Bulge coming out ?

S! Analog Kid

BTW, in case your intrested and I know you are, the min specs on Patton Strikes Back are..
IBM PC/AT that runs at 8MHz or faster
640k of RAM
VGA display
3MB of Hard Drive
DOS 3.0 or higher
Mouse recommended
Sound Blaster or Ad Lib sound card optional
And yes I still have it

[Arjuna]

Hey I used to own that game. It's probably in a box in the garage. It was good and I did enjoy it. I'm pleased your enjoying COTA. [:)]

[Arjuna]

Analog Kid,

Sorry for the delay in replying, but I have been very busy finishing the new beta build for the patch. OK here goes:

ORIGINAL: Analog Kid
#1 While going thru the tutorial, and loading the saves provided, I
would lose my sound after a load or two. But I discoved that if I
used the 'Leave Game' button then load from main screen, rather
than load the save from inside the game the problem disappeared.
My computer or a bug?

We'll have to check this out. I will ask our testers if they can repeat it.
TT3016 - UI - Sound Drop Out on Load Saved Game from within game

#2 When a reinforcement arrives, the reattach button is not
accessiable. I must give an order before I can reattach. Makes for
a couple extra steps if I do want to reattach it. It adds to my CMD
Load. Which is already very low

Good suggestion.
TT3017 - UI - Reattach Button - Ensure activated on arrival of Reinforcement

#3 in the Sarantaporon: Tac Ex - Bde Day Attack it starts at night.
Having the map dark makes it hard to plan for me. Can the map be
lit for daylight until you press play?

mmm...that might mislead users into thinking it starts in daylight when in fact it is night. Maybe it would be best to have an option to turn on or off the gamma adjustment.
TT2018 - UI - Nighttime Gamma Adjustment - Option to turn on/off

#4 in the Sarantaporon: Tac Ex - Bde Day Attack the Ranger Bn does
a strange thing to me (not in every case, played it about 10 times and
it happened at least 3 times). I have it assualting up the hill and when
the line Coy rout or retreat past the Bn HQ, the HQ continues the assualt.
( see below ) Why does the HQ not stop and wait for the Line units to
come back or retreat with them? Now I have a theory, the HQ is rated
a 1 on combat power same as the Coy's, which if you look at the
numbers the HQ does not compare to the line Coy's at all. My theory
is that since they are rated the same combat power it acts as a line Coy.
Can it be rated at zero for combat power or can all other units be bumped
1? Or is my theory flawed?

Very interesting. The HQ should stop if there are no guards remaining ahead of it. I would need to check it out. Do you have a saved game? If so send it to me at support[at]panthergames[dot]com.

BTW your theory about the HQ and its combat power making it act like a line unit is bollocks! Nice try! [;)]

#5 After bombarding then reselecting the unit from the FS tag, can
the bombard icon remain at the last place bombed? It would be easier
IMO to drag it where you want now or repeat bombard. A CMD load thing
again for me

I answered this in the Support forum.

#6 Sticking with Arty, if a Arty unit comes in as a reinforcement and I
dont want to move it or reattach it, how can I get it into the FS tab?

Give it a Defend or Rest order.

Also if you repostion the marker while bombarding or friendy in way msg,
can the timer pause rather than continue to run?

It's possible but I'm not sure it's a good idea. in fact we are discussing in our Dev forum about further restricting the player's ability to direct bombardments. Many believe it gives the player way too much control compared to what actually happened historically. I'll think on it more.

#7 Supply. If a unit is in a fairly contested attack or defend Ive noticed
that the resupply continues with most, if not all, of the supply column is
destroyed. These trucks are part of the base right? Does this not make the
supply base lose efficentency? Why would these truck drivers sucide like that?
Could they not wait till these units are not under fire?

In theory, the Base checks before despatching supplies and if this looks too dangerous then it suspends the request till it's safe top do so. I checked this and it works fine. However, what was not working fine was the actual determination of losses when the transport column arrived. I have tweaked the values and the result is much better. The testers will be paying close attention to this when they review the patch beta build.

#7a In this screen shot you see the base way, way south of the main body.
Does this not cause a inefficient suppy system?

Well to a degree yes. The closer a base is to the receiving units the quicker the turn around in delivering supplies. but it's all a question of balance. Keep in mind that the same consideration applies to the supplies arriving from off-map via the SEP. The further the distance between the SEP and the Base, the longer it takes to receive these supplies. Also there is security to consider. Having your Base overrun is NOT GOOD. You can try it if you like. Just choose a scenario where you know the enemy is on the attack and leave your Base in harms way and monitor it's Depot Tab. [:)]

Also if supply is interdicted,
other than 100% distruction how come the Intel does not show where it
happened? This happened in one scenario to me, where I got alot of supply
column distruction msgs and had to run a unit down the road to discover
where the enemy unit was. Wouldnt the truck drivers report to the unit they
are supplying that they lost half our trucks here on arrival?

Yes and no. You must remember that for CPU processing reasons we do not handle the transport columns as actual units that move across the map each minute. To reduce the load we abstract this aspect. We test the route on despatch and again on arrival. At this point we determine the enemy's firepower influence along the route and use this to determine losses. Now firepower influence means that the enemy has the potential to apply X amount of firepower at a given spot. It does not mean that the enemy has actually fired at that spot. So you see while we could pick the spot where the most firepower influence occurs it would not be the same as if the supply column was actually moving and gets hit at a particular location.
TT3019 - UI - Supply Routes - Indicate Location of interdiction

#8 Slope, If the slope is greater than 30 degs armor
cannot move over it unless by road? In this next screen shot I kept getting
'Unit X not progressing fast' or some such thing. I then found it at 63%!

Be vary careful about slope values as reported in the popup. They are only indicative and much depends on exactly where you press and the alignment of the 100m terrain and spot height grid. I suspect from looking at your picture that you have not clicked dead centre on the unit. Regarding the slow rate of progress, well if you choose to move over rough ground in light woods then you can expect your vehicles to crawl along. The message displayed is a warning to alert you to the fact that maybe you chould change their orders and issue them waypoints to avoid that area.

#9 Ok last one When you select a map boss, all Units are highlighted.
This makes it difficult to see what units are attached to it and will move
with it . In HttR only units attached to it in AI control to be highlighted.
Again my personal CMD load

The jury is out on that one I'm afraid. We had as many others wanting to see all of the subordinates.

Thanks for your comments.

[Analog Kid]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Analog Kid,

Sorry for the delay in replying, but I have been very busy finishing the new beta build for the patch. OK here goes:

No problem sir, your time is much appreciated by me.

mmm...that might mislead users into thinking it starts in daylight when in fact it is night. Maybe it would be best to have an option to turn on or off the gamma adjustment.
TT2018 - UI - Nighttime Gamma Adjustment - Option to turn on/off

Yes an option to turn off the gamma adjustment is just what I want, but I only want/need it for my intial planning stage.

Very interesting. The HQ should stop if there are no guards remaining ahead of it. I would need to check it out. Do you have a saved game? If so send it to me at support[at]panthergames[dot]com.

BTW your theory about the HQ and its combat power making it act like a line unit is bollocks! Nice try! [;)]

I do not. I will try and recreate it. At what point do you need the save, as it happens or at the end?

I have lots of theories and most of them are flawed

In theory, the Base checks before despatching supplies and if this looks too dangerous then it suspends the request till it's safe top do so. I checked this and it works fine. However, what was not working fine was the actual determination of losses when the transport column arrived. I have tweaked the values and the result is much better. The testers will be paying close attention to this when they review the patch beta build.

I guess my question really is, how does the losses effect the ability of a base to deliver supplies in the future? If it is just the % of supplies that cant get thru, no problem. The Reference Guide did not seem to address it. I just cant see Joe Truck Driver, driving into a Bn/Bde battle in progess till everybody in the column is dead.

Yes and no. You must remember that for CPU processing reasons we do not handle the transport columns as actual units that move across the map each minute. To reduce the load we abstract this aspect. We test the route on despatch and again on arrival. At this point we determine the enemy's firepower influence along the route and use this to determine losses. Now firepower influence means that the enemy has the potential to apply X amount of firepower at a given spot. It does not mean that the enemy has actually fired at that spot. So you see while we could pick the spot where the most firepower influence occurs it would not be the same as if the supply column was actually moving and gets hit at a particular location.
TT3019 - UI - Supply Routes - Indicate Location of interdiction

if you could indicate/ highlight say 1-X km stretch of road its happening on, that would be great. I think you should have to search the area, as Army truck drivers are not the best map readers in my experence

Be vary careful about slope values as reported in the popup. They are only indicative and much depends on exactly where you press and the alignment of the 100m terrain and spot height grid. I suspect from looking at your picture that you have not clicked dead centre on the unit. Regarding the slow rate of progress, well if you choose to move over rough ground in light woods then you can expect your vehicles to crawl along. The message displayed is a warning to alert you to the fact that maybe you chould change their orders and issue them waypoints to avoid that area.

What I tried to do if ,I remember correctly, was a defensive position indicated below, and then forgot about them as the battle progressed past the need for them to be there. I opened that scenario and checked thru out that contour line ( indicated in red ) and all was in the 50% or higher grade so not completely sure why that happened anyway. I think they were attempting to travel to the order in an arrowhead or line abreast down the road due to enemy fire earlier.

Thanks for your comments.

Thanks for your time again

S!
Analog Kid

[Arjuna]

I need the save game before or during the event. Best to "save early and save often". That way when some anomoly like this occurs you can send me a couple of saves that I can start up and hopefully get the problem to repeat. That's the key.

[Arjuna]

ORIGINAL: Analog Kid
What I tried to do if ,I remember correctly, was a defensive position indicated below, and then forgot about them as the battle progressed past the need for them to be there. I opened that scenario and checked thru out that contour line ( indicated in red ) and all was in the 50% or higher grade so not completely sure why that happened anyway. I think they were attempting to travel to the order in an arrowhead or line abreast down the road due to enemy fire earlier.

Can you please send me your saved game for that and I'll check it out. Make sure to include a link to this thread. Thanks.

[Crimguy]

ORIGINAL: Analog Kid I stopped buying wargames after playing Harpoon Naval Sim. I had a carrier task force, over 20 ships, tranisting from the North Sea into the Baltic sea. I guess I had placed a waypoint to close to the shore in the Denmark Straits and ran one side of the formation ( 6-8 ships ) aground. Now tell me, what ship Captain is going to allow his ship to ground like that? Pissed me off so bad I never bought another computer wargame again till HttR. A commander should never have to worry what a Private or a Second Lieutenant is doing, thats why Armies have Sergeants . To make a long story short, the Airborne Assault series is what I have been looking for. Sooo Arjuna, when's Battle of the Bulge coming out ?

This is one of the better (and more well-founded) computer game rants I've read[:D]

I had no questions for you other than how many Rush concerts you've been to. . . Been a fan since Permanent Waves [:D]

[Analog Kid]

Since Moving Pictures for me [:)] Saw them for Grace Under Pressure, Power Windows, Hold Your Fire and Test For Echo tours. Test for Echo was probably my favoriate show, even if Geddy's voice aint the same. Played all of 2112, Red Barrcetta and Xanadu bunch of old stuff. They were on over 2 hours, an unbelievable show.

S!

[Crimguy]

I agree on the Test for Echo concert. Best show I've been to, and I had pretty lousy floor seats.