MWiF Map Review - Australia & New Zealand

[Neilster]

Here's what I mean about Mount Wellington. It's a big sucker and there was a road to the summit by 1939 so some artillery could be emplaced up there and really give an invasion fleet trying to take Hobart's major port a bad day.

Cheers, Neilster

[Froonp]

It would be nice to show Gondor and Mt. Orodruin.

Do you know in which hex they were shot ?

[wfzimmerman]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

It would be nice to show Gondor and Mt. Orodruin.

Do you know in which hex they were shot ?

Mt. Ngauruhoe was Orodruin. Looks like the mountain hex 2 hex NE and then 1 hex NW of Wellington, which, fittingly enough, has a road running through it. Mt. Orodruin label in that hex would be a nice easter egg...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngauruhoe

[Froonp]

Here is it with Nielster & Amwild comments integrated (Dividing Range increased in width and Tasmania re-done).

[Neilster]

Tasmania is looking good Patrice. [:D]

Cheers, Neilster

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Here is it with Nielster & Amwild comments integrated (Dividing Range increased in width and Tasmania re-done).

The additional mountain hexes make the paths of the rivers make more sense.

[amwild]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Here is it with Nielster & Amwild comments integrated (Dividing Range increased in width and Tasmania re-done).

This is looking better. Launceston is in a better place. However, Melbourne still needs to be moved one hex west (or maybe one hex north-west), the port symbol needs to be placed directly south or south-west of Melbourne, and Port Philip Bay needs to be re-shaped a bit to match. To anyone who lives in Melbourne, this distortion would set their teeth on edge.

Also, Wilson's Promontory (which should be three hexes south-east of Melbourne 's current (incorrect) position isn't an island.

Another reason I can give for the move is that the hex to which I think Melbourne should be moved also contains Geelong, which is another small industrial town which while not large enough to go on the map, should be considered part of Melbourne.

Also, the coastline around Adelaide, Port Augusta and Kangaroo Island needs a bit of work. In fact, the whole south-eastern Australian coastline could do with a bit more work.

Finally, there is an issue with the forest coastline two hexes east of Melbourne's current (incorrect) position on this map that I'm not sure how to resolve. This area contains Lakes Entrance, and a series of lakes that means that the sea coast is separated from the majority of the hex's land area by lakes running parallel to the coast. If I understand the WiF rules correctly, an all-sea hexside is invadable. However, these lakes would mean that this otherwise invadable hex should probably not be invadable. Here is a link to an image of the area. It shows (somewhat unclearly) that there is a narrow lake running parallel to the sea coast along most of this hex. Does anyone have any suggestions? If someone has a better map of this region they can post from Google Earth or similar, this should better clarify what I'm saying.

[Froonp]

Finally, there is an issue with the forest coastline two hexes east of Melbourne's current (incorrect) position on this map that I'm not sure how to resolve. This area contains Lakes Entrance, and a series of lakes that means that the sea coast is separated from the majority of the hex's land area by lakes running parallel to the coast. If I understand the WiF rules correctly, an all-sea hexside is invadable. However, these lakes would mean that this otherwise invadable hex should probably not be invadable. Here is a link to an image of the area. It shows (somewhat unclearly) that there is a narrow lake running parallel to the sea coast along most of this hex. Does anyone have any suggestions? If someone has a better map of this region they can post from Google Earth or similar, this should better clarify what I'm saying.

From that Google Earth view and measurement, I think that this is not an issue, as it is too short to cover the whole hex, so it does not hamper an invasion.
If there was as much water inland as to hamper troops movements, hence an invasion, I would consider making the land cover a swamp hex, but I don't think the amount of wet terrain warrant it.

[Froonp]

Also, Wilson's Promontory (which should be three hexes south-east of Melbourne 's current (incorrect) position isn't an island.

Where is this ?
3 hexes SE of Melbourne, there is nothing but water ?!? [&:]

[Froonp]

However, Melbourne still needs to be moved one hex west (or maybe one hex north-west), the port symbol needs to be placed directly south or south-west of Melbourne, and Port Philip Bay needs to be re-shaped a bit to match. To anyone who lives in Melbourne, this distortion would set their teeth on edge.

About Melbourne, what need to be kept is all 3 icons, City, Port and Factory, in the same hex.
Your explanations, past & present make me think you want to separate them, which I do not want to do.

From this Google Earth shot, I feel that my placement is not that bad. I could reshape the bay a little, especially with the north part, making it a little more proeminent.

[Froonp]

Also, the coastline around Adelaide, Port Augusta and Kangaroo Island needs a bit of work. In fact, the whole south-eastern Australian coastline could do with a bit more work.

Here is a Google Earth shot at the Adelaide area.

What do you mean by "with a bit more work".
You mean my coastlines are too much "straight", not enough "broken", or do you think that it is the shapes that are not good ?

[Froonp]

If you know the land, and see wrong things, please tell me where so that they get corrected before the real MWiF map is finished.

I wouldn't have thought that the Australian map would have raised that much comments [:D].
I was not very proud of the Broome - Darwin area (very very broken area) nor from my initial SE Tasmania (I did it near the end, and I was quite tired), but I would have though Adelaide & Melbourne were not that bad [:D].
Don't forget also that I try as much as possible to draw coastlines on the top of the hexmap who was already drawn before. I only modify the hex map if it is very wrong (as it was for Scandinavia, Iceland, and NW New Zealand). This sometimes lead to bay that are too wide, or too narrow, because of the hex constrains.

[Neilster]

This link might help for Melbourne's location. It's a series of photomaps from 1945.

http://www.lib.unimelb.edu.au/collectio ... index.html

Also, it it helps at all, during the war years Melbourne's industry would probably have been concentrated to the west of the city centre.

Cheers, Neilster

[Neilster]

...nor of my initial SE Tasmania (I did it near the end, and I was quite tired)...

Taswegians are very sensitive about mapping. We were left off a map of Australia made by school-kiddies with all those coloured cardboard squares at a major sporting event once and it caused much local outrage. [:D]

When graphic designers want an abstract map of Australia for advertising etc, Tasmania is an inconvenience and we often get the chop. Either that or we're shoved up into the Great Australian Bight, the Tasman Sea or artificially connected to Victoria, with Bass Strait erased faster than you can say "Ice Age". [:D]

Then there's the other importance of the map of Tassie. You see, because it's heavily forested and because of its shape, "map of Tassie" is Australian slang for...um...well...you'd best Google. [;)]

Cheers, Neilster

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Then there's the other importance of the map of Tassie. You see, because it's heavily forested and because of its shape, "map of Tassie" is Australian slang for...um...well...you'd best Google. [;)]

Well, I've found it here :
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... +o'+Tassie
Yes, now I understand better why you wanted Tasmania be right.
I hope it is "sexy" enough now [:D]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

If you know the land, and see wrong things, please tell me where so that they get corrected before the real MWiF map is finished.

I wouldn't have thought that the Australian map would have raised that much comments [:D].
I was not very proud of the Broome - Darwin area (very very broken area) nor from my initial SE Tasmania (I did it near the end, and I was quite tired), but I would have though Adelaide & Melbourne were not that bad [:D].
Don't forget also that I try as much as possible to draw coastlines on the top of the hexmap who was already drawn before. I only modify the hex map if it is very wrong (as it was for Scandinavia, Iceland, and NW New Zealand). This sometimes lead to bay that are too wide, or too narrow, because of the hex constrains.

The difficulty with Melbourne is that the hex grid does not lend itself to the placement of the city. There are 3 hexes that contain parts of the city of Melbourne and regardless of which one is chosen for the city, a lot of the city will be in the other 2 hexes. In WIF, keeping the city, factory, and port all in one hex is crucial since they each affect game play so dramatically. Slewing the map around within the existing hex grid so one hex gets most of Melbourne is possible, but awkward. That's because the city more or less surrounds the bay. At the scale used by WIF FE, this would not be a problem, but MWIF has a finer hexgrid (smaller hexes) so some kind of compromise needs to be made between reality and the game map. And yes, this problem has come up before in other places.

[Froonp]

I've made an improved drawing of the Philip Bay (Melbourne), I'll upload it here when I will also have finished the Adelaide area.
This time, to have a flawless drawing, I took the picture from the map at Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/) and put it in a new transparent layer, to draw on top of it.

Also, from the map linked by Neilster (copied below), I think that Melbourne should stay in this hex. As Steve and I said, all three symbols (port factory & city) should stay together.

[wfzimmerman]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I've made an improved drawing of the Philip Bay (Melbourne), I'll upload it here when I will also have finished the Adelaide area.
This time, to have a flawless drawing, I took the picture from the map at Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/) and put it in a new transparent layer, to draw on top of it.

Also, from the map linked by Neilster (copied below), I think that Melbourne should stay in this hex. As Steve and I said, all three symbols (port factory & city) should stay together.

Agree.

[Froonp]

Here is the southeast part of my "Australia, New Zealand 1d.jpg" draft map.
I improved Melbourne's and Adelaide's Bays.
I drew them using a Google contour map placed on the background.
I had to puch the deep part of the Port Augusta Bay to the west because Hex constrictions, and had to trim some places slightly, but I think it is really better.

[wfzimmerman]

What are the grayish asterisks in the water NE of Tasmania?