Real Infantry mod Now Available

[mikul82]

Anyone know if there's a way (preferably easy for someone as mod illiterate as I am) to mod this one to allow occasional heavy tanks and AT guns?  I don't like the vanilla game's setup of nothing but heavy tanks later in a campaign, but would like to have them in small amounts along with heavier AT and infantry guns.  Going up against an entire army of Tiger tanks is no fun, but having one rampaging around the map makes an interesting challenge.  I like the mod quite a bit but the battles kind of feel like they have a lack of variety, I miss having the "Oh ****!!!" moments of seeing a KV-2 driving point blank up to my MG position and blasting them....  T-60's and BT-7's just aren't all that terrifying...

[Llyranor]

As mlc82 is saying, the mod is nice, but not an 'optimal' solution for getting really balanced battles. It's one way or the other Though, if I have to choose, I'll pick the infantry side any day. So cheers for the mod.

It seems that that a major problems stems from how the AI chooses its units and how many requisition points are given. I was looking through the list of historical battles, and it doesn't seem to be much of a problem here. The team you're given seems more balanced (the occasional tank here and there, but not really enough RP's to go all-tank - depending on the map). Since the campaign is pretty linear in terms of putting you from one operation to the next - with no real outcome being affected aside from the units you keep and the RP's you retain (which seems to be largely the problem), I was wondering if I could expect a more balanced game (without being forced to go all-tank or all-infantry, ideally) by simply playing through all the Historical Operations instead.

[Uncle_Joe]

Yep, as I said in the 'Too much armor' thread, this is my biggest disappointment with the game. I was hoping that they could strike a better balance between the armor and the infantry in the campaigns.
 
The funny thing is that playing the Real Infantry mod makes the game MUCH harder because the AI is forced to buy infantry en masse. And since it utterly misuses armor, losing the 6+ tanks actually makes the AI fight a lot better. I was actually driven off a few maps by the AI using Real Infantry, something that rarely happens with the stock game.
 
From what I can see, almost NOBODY enjoys the tank-fest that the campaigns vs the AI inevitable end up as. Isnt there SOME way to go in and patch the game so as to modify the AIs picks or points or something? Mods are great, but as was mentioned above, it would be nice to have occasional heavy armor, but just not the constant used car lot full of mish-mashed AFVs game after game.

[Beeblebrox]

From what I can see, almost NOBODY enjoys the tank-fest that the campaigns vs the AI inevitable end up as.

I am not convinced about this.  Certainly when it comes to Grogsville, this is quite a common dissatisfaction, but the majority of players do not frequent the halls of the Community much.  They actually do enjoy Tank Fests and Heavy Weapons because they are fun to play with.  If CC were boiled down to a gritty infantry Sim (say a 'Band of Brothers' following an Infantry Company, whre the only replacements you ever get are infantry, I think many casual players would become bored quite quickly.
 
So, although I think you are wrong in general about this, you are right in particulars.  The solcution to me is obvious.  Deliver both!  Why it will probably not be done in the re-releases is because it is code intensive work, and therefore very costly.  However, if we don't get this sort ofthing in future releases, I may not even buy it myself....

[Tactics]

Lets not forget where we come from. It's grogsville that has kept the CC name alive and kicking. It seems, for the most part, grogsville makes up the bulk of COI owners.  Not trying to sound snappy. I know BeetleJuice is the man; I just dont think COI should go to our heads. 
 
If this is a nitch game - so be it - let the masses play their band of heros or whatever, but let us keep CC.  Use this time to make CC the game you know it should be, not the game you think will sell.  If grogsville hates tank fests then lose the tank fest. Light armor and real infantry works for me.
 
Maybe we should re-release that old ass M-1 tank game for those roaring fast 486 machines.
 
But thats just what I think. [:)]

[Llyranor]

Erm, that's precisely what he's saying. Wait for CC6. It won't happen with the rereleases given the amount of resources they'd need. Resources that should be spent on CC6.

And I wouldn't say CC is a niche game. I doubt the majority of those 1million+ copies sold were purchased by grogs.

[Tactics]

Point taken. I just panic when I see things like ""Deliver both!""

[Uncle_Joe]

I am not convinced about this.  Certainly when it comes to Grogsville, this is quite a common dissatisfaction, but the majority of players do not frequent the halls of the Community much. They actually do enjoy Tank Fests and Heavy Weapons because they are fun to play with. 

 
Its really got nothing to do with 'grogsville' at all IMO. Its simply where the game engine's strength lies. Tanks and heavy weapons can be fun, if they are used properly by the AI. But I cant imagine that ANYONE finds it 'fun' to watch the AI tanks spin in circles and drive headlong into ambushes and die in droves and simply easily win the game over and over again.
 
The armor-heavy bias simply cripples the AI since it makes poor use of said armor. On the other hand, when it has mass infantry, it is much more threatening. So, I cant fathom why the engine basically forces the AI to mass armor that it performs so poorly with.
 
Again, this is not strictly a preference for armor vs infantry (although I doubt there are anywhere NEAR as many people as you think who enjoy the tank-fest by this point in the game's life-cylce). Instead, its about what the game engine does best...and that is NOT tank-fests. Change the AI to pick predominantly infantry (with a few tanks in support) and the game will be far more challenging while still allowing for armor and heavy weapons to play their role.
 
Back when CC3 was first created, RTS games were all about the 'tank rush'. It was the industry standard from Total Annihilation through Command and Conquer/Red Alert etc. Since then, the market has changed. I dont think most people who are going to pick up THIS version of CC3 (CoI) are doing it to harken back to the old 'tank rush' though...

[Bradley62]

My preference is less "tank heavy" than it used to be. I am in the habit of choosing one "main battle tank" and one supporting vehicle, preferably 20mm mounted armor in many of my single battles. This aspect is a lot of fun as I do my best to put armor in spots where they can support infantry and stay out of harms way. This challenge fuels the tactical side of CC. Nothing like putting a sdKfc 232 in a sweet spot and letting it pound away on opposing infantry.

[mikul82]

ORIGINAL: Beeblebrox

From what I can see, almost NOBODY enjoys the tank-fest that the campaigns vs the AI inevitable end up as.

I am not convinced about this.  Certainly when it comes to Grogsville, this is quite a common dissatisfaction, but the majority of players do not frequent the halls of the Community much.  They actually do enjoy Tank Fests and Heavy Weapons because they are fun to play with.  If CC were boiled down to a gritty infantry Sim (say a 'Band of Brothers' following an Infantry Company, whre the only replacements you ever get are infantry, I think many casual players would become bored quite quickly.

So, although I think you are wrong in general about this, you are right in particulars.  The solcution to me is obvious.  Deliver both!  Why it will probably not be done in the re-releases is because it is code intensive work, and therefore very costly.  However, if we don't get this sort ofthing in future releases, I may not even buy it myself....

Honestly, I seriously doubt many people will ever even know this game exists outside of the wargaming hardcore... I check this board constantly for updates on the old Talonsoft Campaign Series, and had never even noticed or heard of a CC remake until I saw a forum post about it on Wargamer. I would have been excited about this one also but had never heard one bit of hype about the game anywhere, and I check out all the wargaming stuff I can find...

[Comrade_Blabsky]

Scenario Editor can set the order of battle for one day.  It's the multi-days of operations and campaigns that are causing you good soldiers pain.
 
The wide variety is a feature, not a bug.
 
Just a tiny bit of modding and operation/campaign design is all that is needed to achieve Close Combat Simulation Nirvana.
 
The CC3 is particularly suited for developing your strike force with experience and morale, and promotions and medals.  CC4 and 5 are a little more impersonal, but gain a strategic layer.  They also make modding a much more involved process.  So I have always gravitated back to CC3, for the ease in tweaking teams and making campaigns, as well as getting to run around on the battlefield ("Blabsky has been killed!").
 
The series marches towards CC6, and Senior Drill has given some exciting reviews of what we can expect.  I hope more people will stay with the series and support Simtek and Matrix in their efforts.