update?

Norm Koger's The Operational Art of War III is the next game in the award-winning Operational Art of War game series. TOAW3 is updated and enhanced version of the TOAW: Century of Warfare game series. TOAW3 is a turn based game covering operational warfare from 1850-2015. Game scale is from 2.5km to 50km and half day to full week turns. TOAW3 scenarios have been designed by over 70 designers and included over 130 scenarios. TOAW3 comes complete with a full game editor.

Moderators: JAMiAM, ralphtricky

wolflars
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:07 pm

RE: update?

Post by wolflars »

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

ORIGINAL: Veers

Ok, I'm a nice guy. I like what you guys have done for the game, and I like the crop circles...but, couldn't they have been drawn like hezes, instead of circles?

Image

It's just my opinion, but that would seem to be a little clearer...
Yes, but turn off the hex grid and add in escarpments, etc. and it gets muddier. I thought the hex version would be more accurate, but look at lot more 'gamey'.

Love the crop circles!!! better than crop hexagons? Well, since I play with grid off I prefer the circles. I only got to play 20 min or so with the new update, so far so good. I hit the "I" key and said 'whoa...cool' It is really helpful for planning, but I am a little unclear as to what the colors for the circles are, as I said I only got to play around with it for a few minutes so.....
User avatar
freeboy
Posts: 8969
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 9:33 am
Location: Colorado

RE: update?

Post by freeboy »

the members area still is the one not working ffor me... thanks
"Tanks forward"
User avatar
Veers
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:04 am

RE: update?

Post by Veers »

On the crop circles: The 'circle' does not appear to be drawn correctly, as well as being off centre.
Image
Is this also going to be fixed in the next update?
Further, is the crop circles option going to get its own button? It is a nice feature to have, but I'd love to see the units visible/invisible button go back to being just that again, sometime.
To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.
JAMiAM
Posts: 6127
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:35 am

RE: update?

Post by JAMiAM »

Wyatt, can you post two separate screenshots, please? The timing of the image switching doesn't give enough time to see what you're talking about before motion sickness sets in...[;)]
User avatar
rhinobones
Posts: 2225
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 10:00 am

RE: update?

Post by rhinobones »

ORIGINAL: Veers
On the crop circles: The 'circle' does not appear to be drawn correctly, as well as being off centre.

Is this also going to be fixed in the next update?

Don't think it really needs fixing.

Like artillery with a range of 1 hex, the crop circle counts the starting hex as 1. The last full hex in the example is actually hex number 12 and the 13th is any of the next three . . . that is, the shallow water hex directly above number 12, the next rail road hex and the mountain hex.

Regards, RhinoBones
Colin Wright:
Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

Post by broccolini » Sun Nov 06, 2022
. . . no-one needs apologize for douchebags acting like douchebags
User avatar
Veers
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:04 am

RE: update?

Post by Veers »

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

ORIGINAL: Veers
On the crop circles: The 'circle' does not appear to be drawn correctly, as well as being off centre.

Is this also going to be fixed in the next update?

Don't think it really needs fixing.

Like artillery with a range of 1 hex, the crop circle counts the starting hex as 1. The last full hex in the example is actually hex number 12 and the 13th is any of the next three . . . that is, the shallow water hex directly above number 12, the next rail road hex and the mountain hex.

Regards, RhinoBones
Naw, if that was true, Arty with a range of 1 wouldn't support anything outside of its own hex. And arty with range of two would only support stuff 1 hex away.
Unless you are refering to the first hex outside of a unit being hex 1, in which case you are correct and so is my picture.
@James: Working on it right now.
To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.
User avatar
Veers
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:04 am

RE: update?

Post by Veers »

Tada. Hopefully this better ilusrates what Im refering to. Now, it's not that I'm advocating crop hexes (ok, I am [:D]), but a crop circle that lies to me doesn't do me a lot of good. Not that I don't think the idea, itself, is bad. I love it, I just think it may need to be improved somewhat. :D
ImageSorry for the largeness of this pic.
To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.
JAMiAM
Posts: 6127
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:35 am

RE: update?

Post by JAMiAM »

Fricking server reset caused me to lose the previous post...[:@][:o][:@]

Anyhow, I see what you're talking about, Wyatt. I agree that the DBR should be displayed as a hexagonal shape, as opposed to the circle. As the range becomes greater, so will the difference between the circle and the polygonal side midpoints, even if the circle is perfectly centered, and perfectly drawn - neither of which we current have being the case.

I prefer function over form, and in this case, though the circles look nicer, they are misleading in some respects. Personally, I don't really use them myself, since I always leave the hex grid on while playing, and look at the individual units so that I know the composition of them. It's rather useless to worry about the maximum range of a unit given that it might be set for that unit by a single (or even non-existent) piece of equipment. Especially when the majority of the unit's actual bombardment strength is at some other range.

What would be more useful, IMO, than the circles is a diplay of the strength of a ranged unit at its incremental ranges. Only the differentiating radii would need to be displayed, and that is usually only two or three increments in the vast majority of cases.
cbird
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:46 am

RE: update?

Post by cbird »

relax wildman....[X(]
ORIGINAL: freeboy

Sill unable to get p[atch, justtimes out.. goingon fifty tries now!
User avatar
a white rabbit
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 3:11 pm
Location: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..

RE: update?

Post by a white rabbit »

..within the restricted area of the crop circle, any chance that the engine can be given the ability to recognise different heights of terrain, and not shoot over them ?..well, unless it's a mortar or similar...
..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,
User avatar
Veers
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:04 am

RE: update?

Post by Veers »

That's more of a tactical detail. This is an operational game. And I think they should fix the current features before adding new ones.
To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.
User avatar
Veers
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:04 am

RE: update?

Post by Veers »

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

Fricking server reset caused me to lose the previous post...[:@][:o][:@]
Bummer.
Anyhow, I see what you're talking about, Wyatt. I agree that the DBR should be displayed as a hexagonal shape, as opposed to the circle. As the range becomes greater, so will the difference between the circle and the polygonal side midpoints, even if the circle is perfectly centered, and perfectly drawn - neither of which we current have being the case.
Agreed.
I prefer function over form, and in this case, though the circles look nicer, they are misleading in some respects. Personally, I don't really use them myself, since I always leave the hex grid on while playing, and look at the individual units so that I know the composition of them. It's rather useless to worry about the maximum range of a unit given that it might be set for that unit by a single (or even non-existent) piece of equipment. Especially when the majority of the unit's actual bombardment strength is at some other range.
I do as well, but once you play enough turns of a game you get to know which units are operating with eq that is at that max range (an air unit with only one type in it, for example). As well, when you know that a unit has range 13, but the eq of record inside only has 12 you can, or could, easily identify where the outer range is by using a corrected crop hexagon and subracting one from that displaed range.
What would be more useful, IMO, than the circles is a diplay of the strength of a ranged unit at its incremental ranges. Only the differentiating radii would need to be displayed, and that is usually only two or three increments in the vast majority of cases.
And this would really be the icing on the cake, making the system something to really be pround of.
To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.
User avatar
a white rabbit
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 3:11 pm
Location: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..

RE: update?

Post by a white rabbit »

ORIGINAL: Veers

That's more of a tactical detail. This is an operational game. And I think they should fix the current features before adding new ones.

..depends how you consider ancient battles stretching over several kilometers..

..and why not add new features whilst fixing current ones ?..
..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,
User avatar
Veers
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:04 am

RE: update?

Post by Veers »

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
..depends how you consider ancient battles stretching over several kilometers..
Ancient battles were hardly fought with any sense of 'operational' in mind.

..and why not add new features whilst fixing current ones ?..
I suppose.
To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.
User avatar
rhinobones
Posts: 2225
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 10:00 am

RE: update?

Post by rhinobones »

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
. . . any chance that the engine can be given the ability to recognise different heights of terrain, and not shoot over them ?

This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago . . . This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago . . . This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago . . .

. . . whoa, think I'm starting to repeat myself. This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago.

Regards, RhinoBones


Colin Wright:
Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

Post by broccolini » Sun Nov 06, 2022
. . . no-one needs apologize for douchebags acting like douchebags
User avatar
Veers
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:04 am

RE: update?

Post by Veers »

ORIGINAL: rhinobones
ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
. . . any chance that the engine can be given the ability to recognise different heights of terrain, and not shoot over them ?

This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago . . . This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago . . . This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago . . .

. . . whoa, think I'm starting to repeat myself. This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago.

Regards, RhinoBones




[:D][:D]
To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.
JAMiAM
Posts: 6127
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:35 am

RE: update?

Post by JAMiAM »

ORIGINAL: rhinobones
This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago . . . This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago . . . This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago . . .

. . . whoa, think I'm starting to repeat myself. This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago.
What was?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
[:D]
User avatar
a white rabbit
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 3:11 pm
Location: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..

RE: update?

Post by a white rabbit »

ORIGINAL: rhinobones
ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
. . . any chance that the engine can be given the ability to recognise different heights of terrain, and not shoot over them ?

This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago . . . This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago . . . This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago . . .

. . . whoa, think I'm starting to repeat myself. This was brought to the the attention of the TOAW owners a long time ago.

Regards, RhinoBones



..yahh, but now they gotta small circle to do it in, kinda makes it easier..
..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,
User avatar
a white rabbit
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 3:11 pm
Location: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..

RE: update?

Post by a white rabbit »

ORIGINAL: Veers

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
..depends how you consider ancient battles stretching over several kilometers..
Ancient battles were hardly fought with any sense of 'operational' in mind.


..so ?..a battle stretching acros a full toaw map strikes me as pretty "operational"*, a full map if a suitable range is chosen for slings, such as twice an inf move..

..* whatever that is anyway, early blurb with Toaw said that it took over where the bullets stopped flying round your ears, seems a fair definition to me..
..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,
User avatar
Veers
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:04 am

RE: update?

Post by Veers »

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

ORIGINAL: Veers

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
..depends how you consider ancient battles stretching over several kilometers..
Ancient battles were hardly fought with any sense of 'operational' in mind.


..so ?..a battle stretching acros a full toaw map strikes me as pretty "operational"*, a full map if a suitable range is chosen for slings, such as twice an inf move..

..* whatever that is anyway, early blurb with Toaw said that it took over where the bullets stopped flying round your ears, seems a fair definition to me..

And I'm pretty sure that if you have to start accounting for slings having range, that you've just dived into the area where the bullets fly around your ears, and left the operational realm.
To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.
Post Reply

Return to “Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III”