OT?: Pete Rose Admits to Betting On His Own Team

[Mark Carver]

From Major League Rule 21 (Conduct)... of which is posted in each clubhouse.

http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/rose/rule21.html

(d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or
employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

[robpost3]

Thanks Mark...that puts in stone writing...(sorry Pete your love of money outshines that of baseball)...
(f) OTHER MISCONDUCT. Nothing herein contained shall be construed as
exclusively defining or otherwise limiting acts, transactions, practices
or conduct not to be in the best interests of Baseball; and any and all
other acts, transactions, practices or conduct not to be in the best
interests of Baseball are prohibited and shall be subject to such
penalties, including permanent ineligibility, as the facts in the
particular case may warrant.

This great disclaimer hits the steroid "drug enhancement" issue as far as I can tell...
Bye, bye dopers...

[sven]

ORIGINAL: Mark Carver

From Major League Rule 21 (Conduct)... of which is posted in each clubhouse.

http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/rose/rule21.html

(d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or
employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

as I said it is exceedingly charming who gets held to higher standards....

[;)]

[James Ward]

Hiring a manager who wouldn't bet on his own team to win is like hiring a chef who won't eat his own cooking. Why would you want either one?

[Knuckles_85]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

There wasn't any rule against steroids, hgh, etc. when McGwire et al were using them. There was a rule against betting on baseball when Rose was managing.

I wouldn't let him in the hall ever. He voluntarily signed a document divorcing himself from baseball. Don't sign what you don't mean. Fork him.

Ray Fosse's revenge is dish best served cold.


Edited to add gratuitous comment.

What McGwire and the crew did was worst. What they did was illegal.

[robpost3]

What McGwire and the crew did was worst. What they did was illegal.

No blowin wind there...I agree whole heartedly....

[Goblin]

Murderers, rapist, child molesters, etc get punished for far shorter periods of time.

He bet on his OWN team, which would encourage him to play even harder to win.

You get drugged up ballplayers now, and no one even thinks twice about it. He commited the absolutely unforgivable act of....wait for it...making a WAGER!!!!! [X(]

He played his ass off to get his stats.

He should be in the Hall.



Goblin

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Murderers, rapist, child molesters, etc get punished for far shorter periods of time.

He bet on his OWN team, which would encourage him to play even harder to win.

You get drugged up ballplayers now, and no one even thinks twice about it. He commited the absolutely unforgivable act of....wait for it...making a WAGER!!!!! [X(]

He played his ass off to get his stats.

He should be in the Hall.



Goblin

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Goblin. The relevant MLB rules are quoted in a previous post, and it's obvious that Pete broke the rules.

[sven]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Murderers, rapist, child molesters, etc get punished for far shorter periods of time.

He bet on his OWN team, which would encourage him to play even harder to win.

You get drugged up ballplayers now, and no one even thinks twice about it. He commited the absolutely unforgivable act of....wait for it...making a WAGER!!!!! [X(]

He played his ass off to get his stats.

He should be in the Hall.



Goblin

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Goblin. The relevant MLB rules are quoted in a previous post, and it's obvious that Pete broke the rules.

consequently he should be disbarred for 5 years and prevented from appearing before the Supreme Court....

[Zap]

For the integrity of the game Pete Rose should be banned. So should the Home run records of Sosa, Mcgwire, Bonds. And possibly they should also be negated consideration for the hall of fame too.

Hank Arron got his record the natural way Bonds became a hormone monstrosity to get where he is. And I can't understand anyone defending these guys. Baseball was and is a test of ones natural abilities not some kind of contest to see who can take in the most hormone inhancement!

[robpost3]

He should be in the Hall.

Yes, waiting in line like everyone else to get their chance to see baseballs greatest...

ORIGINAL: sven
Well "everyone lies about gambling!"......
but I digress, frankly when the Red Machine was in swing there were two kinds of fans in my circle....
Rose or Bench.....
I was a Bench fan....

Bench too...and Morgan.
and Hank, man they are classy acts...Imagine all the kids that would be sold out if it was Clemente or Aaron, or Seaver he was squeaky clean...

Side tracking but, the 70's make a good argument forthe last greatest decade in baseball: pound for pound...Maybe it's just the 80's and that whole Flock of Seagulls thing[;)]but with few exceptions iconics and spirit that was last great crop of true ball players...
measured by deed and not commercial success...

Rose is a weed!

[robpost3]

o.k. there was tons of commercials but its not the selling point is in todays game...Reggie bars, O'Henry, back of Hostess boxes....hmmmm there goes that theory perhaps...

[sven]

ORIGINAL: robpost3



Rose is a weed!

absolutely but hey "everybody lies about *insert whatever we were lowering the bar for back in the '90s*"....

I liked Morgan and Griffey the elder as well.....

I grew up an hour north of Cincy Pete and Johnny were the cat's meow but hell I have yet to see a team better than the BRM at its peak....

Baseball died for me when they killed the World Series....

I go to minor league parks.

[robpost3]

Little trip back for ya circa 1975 enjoy:
“ Carbo hits it into dead center into the bleacheeeeers, WE'RE TIED UP!! - Joe Garagiola, calling Bernie Carbo's dramatic game-tying 3-run home run in the bottom of the 8th inning. ”
“ Wow what a game Fisky, we are playing the best World Series game ever, is too bad somebody has to lose - Cincinnati Reds lead off hitter Pete Rose talking to Red Sox catcher Carlton Fisk during one of the late innings of Game 6. ”
“ There it goes! A long drive if it stays fair...HOME RUN! - Dick Stockton, calling Carlton Fisk's home run. ”
“ The 1-0 delivery to Fisk. He swings...long drive, left field...if it stays fair, it's gone...HOME RUN! The Red Sox win! And the series is tied, three games apiece! - Ned Martin on NBC Radio, calling Carlton Fisk's 12th inning game-winning home run at Fenway Park, October 21, 1975, off Pat Darcy of the Cincinnati Reds ”
“ And Cincinnati has won the World Championship, beating the Red Sox 4 to 3. - Curt Gowdy ”
* The image of Carlton Fisk waving his Game 6, 12th inning home run fair was caught on tape because the cameraman stationed inside Fenway Park's Green Monster noticed an enormous rat coming toward him and did not move his camera after the hit.

* Game 7 was watched by an estimated 71 million TV viewers.

* These were the final major-league games to be played before the Seitz decision two months afterward, which nullified baseball's reserve clause and ushered in the free agent era.

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

There wasn't any rule against steroids, hgh, etc. when McGwire et al were using them. There was a rule against betting on baseball when Rose was managing.

I wouldn't let him in the hall ever. He voluntarily signed a document divorcing himself from baseball. Don't sign what you don't mean. Fork him.

Ray Fosse's revenge is dish best served cold.


Edited to add gratuitous comment.

What McGwire and the crew did was worst. What they did was illegal.

I fail to see how it was illegal. There were no prohibitions in baseball to it when most of them started, then when Bobby Bonds starting going wild people started worrying about it and started to want to ban it. Then, of course, none of players wanted to admit it, so they just tried to wean themselves off of them or just kept trying to hide it. I suppose baseball couldn't have cared less unless it was apparent, such as in Bonds case, that their use might just boost performance more than just a little bit.

[Mark Carver]

ORIGINAL: robpost3

Yes, waiting in line like everyone else to get their chance to see baseballs greatest...

Pete Rose accomplishments as a player are in fact are displayed/mentioned in the Hall of Fame. His ROY and MVP award is mentioned in the HOF. His 4256 hits is their also as well as many other of his accomplishment.

[robpost3]

as well they should but his bust or any other "enshrinment virtues" should be left out...

[robpost3]

I fail to see how it was illegal.

Outside of this stipulation:

(f) OTHER MISCONDUCT. Nothing herein contained shall be construed as
exclusively defining or otherwise limiting acts, transactions, practices
or conduct not to be in the best interests of Baseball; and any and all
other acts, transactions, practices or conduct not to be in the best
interests of Baseball are prohibited and shall be subject to such
penalties, including permanent ineligibility, as the facts in the
particular case may warrant.

which I feel is warrent...Pete is w/o the hall one of the greatest...no hall...bonds and dopers are cheats way way way IMOO...by the way Happy St. Pats to all...

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

See this story: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6570 ... HCP>1=9232

In all honesty, I have a real problem with this. Having a gambling addiction is one thing, but even betting on your own team implies that an outsider COULD influence the game.

Do you keep in a faltering starter even if you're winning, and possibly take the risk of injury to that player, just because you have money riding on your team's performance?

I frankly don't care for Pete's spin -- "Because I loved my team." I admired him as a player, but this is too much. No amount of wiggling and spinning, at this point, is gonna help his cause, IMHO.

To my mind, the man's integrity is in the dumpster in perpetuity. It's sad, but I hold the perhaps old-fashioned view that the integrity of the game is more important than forgiving the damage done by any individual player, regardless of his accomplishments.

Does anyone disagree?

Nope I do not agree. I think Pete Rose is a fine man and was a fine player with an addiction. Like all addictions it came with it's problems and issues. He PAID for his crime I do not think it should follow him for the rest of his life or he be kept out of the Hall of Fame as a PLAYER because of what he did as a person. I believe in forgiveness and 2nd chances. Especially if you duely paid by law for your crimes.

Pete Rose will probably get into the Hall of Fame postumously when people finally get their heads out of their butts thinking people should pay for something they did for the rest of their lives an eternity.

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: robpost3

I fail to see how it was illegal.

Outside of this stipulation:

(f) OTHER MISCONDUCT. Nothing herein contained shall be construed as
exclusively defining or otherwise limiting acts, transactions, practices
or conduct not to be in the best interests of Baseball; and any and all
other acts, transactions, practices or conduct not to be in the best
interests of Baseball are prohibited and shall be subject to such
penalties, including permanent ineligibility, as the facts in the
particular case may warrant.

which I feel is warrent...Pete is w/o the hall one of the greatest...no hall...bonds and dopers are cheats way way way IMOO...by the way Happy St. Pats to all...

That's just a blanket statement to cover their worthless hides. It's like the boss that doesn't mind somebody smoking on the job, and then goes all ballistic once somebody totally outside the company complains. It's quite worthless to say you banned steroids on some flimsy conduct unbecoming nonsense for past conduct, because the players expect the league to tell them what is unbecoming and with steroids being new at one time, the league kept waiting around for the latest breeze in the air to determine whether they would allow it further, and then they have the audacity to act as though it was banned all along because of this unbecoming clause. The "best interests of baseball" at the time, was allowing the steroids because it was allowing some monsterous stats and must had affected attendance, but then they were also stupid enough not to realize that the fans of the old players aren't going to sit pretty while the dopers shatter all those records.