These are all straw man arguments as you well knew when you wrote them. Tactical surprise is different from whether or not one is at war. If it is your claim that instances of tactical surprise reflect pilot capabilities, then it would be as well to knock 20 points off of the EXP of all Japanese naval pilots because they were indeed surprised by RAF tactical bombers in the Indian Ocean (which bombers simply missed) and again at Midway, and when the Japanese lost light carriers in both the Coral Sea and Eastern Solomons engagements.
You had asked for examples of when surprise was not a factor. I gave them.
And I never claimed that tactical surprise reflected pilot capabilities though in no small part it is part of the equation. A good pilot will try to gain an advantage without being spotted. A good leader will plan for achieving surprise whenever possible. And let's not forget, sometimes just plain luck (call it fortunate circumstance if the word luck isn't to your liking) presents a golden opportunity to achieve surprise. But achieving surprise, whether one likes it or not, is an intricate part of the art of war.
The problem with the "shock and awe" and "learning curve" claims is that they are illogical. Thach & Flatley certainly had no shock or awe and no learning curve to overcome, since they'd already solved the Wildcat vs Zero problem before the war even started. There were plenty of people in the USN VF units that had heard of their work in 1941, and even rookies could be taught the tactic literally on the fly (as at Midway). So at the least, the ZB if hardcoded not to apply to the AVG should likewise never apply when the Allied opfor consists of US carrier planes. Not even in Dec 1941.
Let's talk a little bit about the Thatch Weave... specificially when was it developed and when was it first used... Lundstrom (Vol 1) goes into great detail about how and when it was developed. In a nutshell, here are the facts.
Thach's unit re-equipped with F4F-3s in July of 41 so his main focus during this period was on learning the new aircraft vice developing tactics against a fighter he hadn't even heard of yet. Thach did begin work on developing tactics during the fall of 41 however the tactic that became known as the Thach Weave wasn't thought of until very late in 1941. The US had just adopted the 6-plane formation consisting of 3 pairs of fighters (over Halsey's initial objections) and Thach initially worked hard to make it work. He even tried the British weave system of having 2 aircraft remain above and behind the rest of the formation as a type of early warning tactic. He could not make it work. The FATU report became available to him sometime late in 1941. It was originally published in Sep 41 and probably didn't filter down to him until Oct 41. (If you've ever been in the military, you know how long it takes for data to filter through the system, even in this day of "instant" communications- especially when it is a report that the fleet admirals dispute).
Thach finally hit on his solution sometime after that report. He tested it with Butch O'Hare and sent it up the chain for approval. Halsey turned it down with the caveat that VF-3 could continue to work on it. (So much for every VF unit being aware of this new tactic). By then war had broke out. Thach did not have an opportunity to use the new tactic until Midway and even then only a small part of VF-3 knew how to use it due to the incorporation of replacement pilots from VF-42 and flight school. These replacements had only the briefest of training on the tactic prior to Midway. Thach spent most of his time drilling them in live gunnery exercises.
At Midway, Thach was able to use it on several occasions and found that it was successful. Upon returning to Oahu, Thath received permission from Halsey to disseminate to the fleet. He first attempted to convince Flatley of the value of it but Flatley believed his 6-palne formation was superior. Thach had O'Hare "school" Flatley on its use and Flatley immediately adopted it. In fact, Flatley was the man who named it the Thach Weave during the Guadalcanal campaign.
Now if you have other sources that dispute that, please list them along with their page numbers so we can be on the same "page."
You are using the Zero bonus as your own strawman argument (you like that word- strawman) to cite critical flaws in the game. What about all the mods where the Zero bonus isn't part of the equation? Of course, you wouldn't have any experience with those mods. I keep forgetting you don't have the game.
And you still have not answered my question... why do you care so much about a game you don't have, don't play and go to great length to denigrate? Why is this so important to you?
Chez
