Kyushu J7W "Shinden"

[dtravel]

If you're worried about Japanese over-production in PBEM games, the first thing you need to do is remove all the extra R&D factories put in for the AI.  Like AKs and APs, Japan has in game two to three times what they had IRL because it was "a better game design decision" than actually coming up with an AI routine that would be merely ten years obsolete instead of the decapitated thing we currently have.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

If you're worried about Japanese over-production in PBEM games, the first thing you need to do is remove all the extra R&D factories put in for the AI.  Like AKs and APs, Japan has in game two to three times what they had IRL because it was "a better game design decision" than actually coming up with an AI routine that would be merely ten years obsolete instead of the decapitated thing we currently have.

Can I have a big "AMEN" to that Brothers and Sisters? You hit the nail on the head there, dtravel.

[ctangus]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

If you're worried about Japanese over-production in PBEM games, the first thing you need to do is remove all the extra R&D factories put in for the AI. Like AKs and APs, Japan has in game two to three times what they had IRL because it was "a better game design decision" than actually coming up with an AI routine that would be merely ten years obsolete instead of the decapitated thing we currently have.

I've never seen the extra R&D factories to be a big problem in the game. They still need 1000 points of supply each to be repaired.

For example - let's say I'm producing 100 A6M2s and want to increase that to 200. I could do that two ways:

1. Increase existing factories. Initial cost = 10K supply to expand & cost to repair = 100K. Total 110K supply.

2. Convert an R&D factory. Initial cost = 0 + cost to repair = 100K. Total 100K supply.

I doubt that 10% extra supply cost would mean much in most games. And it's balanced out slightly by the fact that there's now no chance to research the plane whose R&D factory was converted.

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: ctangus

ORIGINAL: dtravel

If you're worried about Japanese over-production in PBEM games, the first thing you need to do is remove all the extra R&D factories put in for the AI. Like AKs and APs, Japan has in game two to three times what they had IRL because it was "a better game design decision" than actually coming up with an AI routine that would be merely ten years obsolete instead of the decapitated thing we currently have.

I've never seen the extra R&D factories to be a big problem in the game. They still need 1000 points of supply each to be repaired.

For example - let's say I'm producing 100 A6M2s and want to increase that to 200. I could do that two ways:

1. Increase existing factories. Initial cost = 10K supply to expand & cost to repair = 100K. Total 110K supply.

2. Convert an R&D factory. Initial cost = 0 + cost to repair = 100K. Total 100K supply.

I doubt that 10% extra supply cost would mean much in most games. And it's balanced out slightly by the fact that there's now no chance to research the plane whose R&D factory was converted.

But what happens if you leave the factories alone and the new plane type enters production? All the factories producing the previous, now replaced, plane type automatically upgrade to the new type at no cost. So Japan is now instantly producing the new plane enmass for free, plus has all these formerly R&D factories now producing the aircraft.

The player doesn't have to do any factory conversions, he's production simply increases continuously throughout the war for free as those R&D factories come on line.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
Yeah, that plane was built here in Washington state. A year or two ago there was a good article in one of the aviation magazines about the project to rebuild a few Me262s. IIRC, they had contracts for about four buyers...

In the 1990s, the Marine Corps had their Me-262 restored for static display. During the restoration, detailed plans were made of the airframe and the airworthy ones being built are all new duplicates built from those plans. They did make one compromise and used GE engines since the original Jumos would be very expensive to reproduce as well as dangerous and unrelaible. The GE engines are installed in housings that look like Jumo 004s though.

Here is the web page for the builders: Stormbirds

Bill

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl
Excellent point! The decision to bring the production line to a halt even just to change to a new "model" of the same aircraft was always a major one, as it required a shutdown and retooling and installing new jigs and then trying to get the line back up to it's previous speed. Changing over to an entirely new aircraft design meant retooling and often re-designing the entire production line..., which could take months.

The ultimate example of the reluctance to shut down production was probably the B-29. Rather than dealing with the delay involved, the US actually flew brand new B-29's fresh off the lines in Wichita immediately to an "upgrade center" where they had brand new parts stripped off and replaced with newer equipment, parts, and instraments before being sent overseas. Rediculously wastefull and expensive, but it kept up high output, and the Americans (unlike everyone else) could afford it.

There were several US aircraft that were reworked this way. B-17s were reworked in Cheyenne Wyoming. The late G model tail gun position is called the Cheyenne Turret because it was one of the upgrades done there.

Lockheed designed a version of the P-38 with Merlins that was much lighter and much faster, but the government canned the project because they didn't want to take the time to retool.

Bill

[ctangus]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

ORIGINAL: ctangus

ORIGINAL: dtravel

If you're worried about Japanese over-production in PBEM games, the first thing you need to do is remove all the extra R&D factories put in for the AI. Like AKs and APs, Japan has in game two to three times what they had IRL because it was "a better game design decision" than actually coming up with an AI routine that would be merely ten years obsolete instead of the decapitated thing we currently have.

I've never seen the extra R&D factories to be a big problem in the game. They still need 1000 points of supply each to be repaired.

For example - let's say I'm producing 100 A6M2s and want to increase that to 200. I could do that two ways:

1. Increase existing factories. Initial cost = 10K supply to expand & cost to repair = 100K. Total 110K supply.

2. Convert an R&D factory. Initial cost = 0 + cost to repair = 100K. Total 100K supply.

I doubt that 10% extra supply cost would mean much in most games. And it's balanced out slightly by the fact that there's now no chance to research the plane whose R&D factory was converted.

But what happens if you leave the factories alone and the new plane type enters production? All the factories producing the previous, now replaced, plane type automatically upgrade to the new type at no cost. So Japan is now instantly producing the new plane enmass for free, plus has all these formerly R&D factories now producing the aircraft.

The player doesn't have to do any factory conversions, he's production simply increases continuously throughout the war for free as those R&D factories come on line.

Well, if you leave the factories alone you still have to repair the R&D factories at 1000 points/factory point - they start the game fully damaged. If you want to produce 100 Tonys a month you still have to spend at least 100,000 supply. 10% difference at most.

[grossmetzger]

here is the mentioned video of the shinden..
shindeninflight
(use the free-option)
bela

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: TheElf
Ever hear of Burt Rutan...?

Of course..., but that's decades of R & D from 1945. In 1945 you're talking "cutting edge" technology. And while the Japanese had some brilliant theorists and designers, their engineering and other developmental strength was lacking. The difference between an "experimental prototype" and a "combat-ready fighter" is pretty substantial.

Agreed. Not to mention lightweight composites and blemish free skins. My point wasn't to say it would definitely have been a top performer, just to contest a thoughtless judgement that it wouldn't perform well at all. It can't be proven either way, unless someone actually built one to specs...

[Yakface]

The Axis definitely had the coolest looking aircraft of WWII Shinden and Me 262 were streaks ahead, in aesthetic terms, of anything the Allies produced