PT boat

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc
I'd like to see a DD try to ram a PT...if the PT sees it coming, I don't think the DD has a chance.

Always wondered why this question wasn't asked more in the PT-109 story. How many guys had to be "asleep at the switch" for a DD to "sneak up and ram them"? Plenty of "heroism" after the fact --- but it would seem some "bumbling incompetence" would be needed to get there....

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Me either, but then again, the Dutch fighters don't have much firepower. Maybe if we put a Beaufighter on the job...

good point.

[BrucePowers]

My Dutch fighters did not do any of that...

[m10bob]

Just a reminder..from WWI, the original full name for "Destroyer" was "Torpedo-boat destroyer"...

[rogueusmc]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

ORIGINAL: shangrila

I read an account one of a PT dropping it's DC's infront of a JAP destroyer that was in pursuit that was trying to ram them.

I'd like to see a DD try to ram a PT...if the PT sees it coming, I don't think the DD has a chance.

Depending on the surface conditions it shouldn't be able to catch a PT. PTs should be a bit faster and certainly a lot more manueverable...not to mention they fly apart when anything hits it. Get within machine gun range and blast it out of the water.

Most of the Jap DDs could do 32knots but they took alot more time getting there than the PTs...and the PTs could turn on a dime compared to a DD.

[rogueusmc]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc
I'd like to see a DD try to ram a PT...if the PT sees it coming, I don't think the DD has a chance.

Always wondered why this question wasn't asked more in the PT-109 story. How many guys had to be "asleep at the switch" for a DD to "sneak up and ram them"? Plenty of "heroism" after the fact --- but it would seem some "bumbling incompetence" would be needed to get there....

I think they said the visibility was under 100m...you'd think you'd hear a DD coming though...

[niceguy2005]

I wonder if the 6/43 upgrade makes the USN PTs more deadly, as I think it adds radar. Might explain why some folks see PTs sinking everything and others see their PTs get slaughtered.

My PT boats on most missions....

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

I think they said the visibility was under 100m...you'd think you'd hear a DD coming though...

Might have been noisy that night. PT 109 had 4 torps I believe. Cant really imagine why you would need 16 people on PT 658.

2 officers (1 I guess so the other one can go to the can?)
2 torpedomen
2 .50 cal gunners
2 guys on the 40mm
1 (2?) engineers
1 radio operator

What do the other 6 guys do? I guess man the 37mm AT gun they stole and mounted on the bow?

[wdolson]

BTW, and IMHO light weapons on PTs (i.e. the forementiones 20mm and 40mm) should be toned down and their usage against ships much more limited... the DDs and CLs should not suffer tremendous losses from engaging PTs...

ORIGINAL: spence
Though I actually don't disagree with your statement much the system presently has the aforementioned CLs, etc sinking PTs in droves. That never happened IRL...something like 7 PTs sunk by IJN naval craft during the entire war. So the model is more or less "broken in both directions" now to be more bloody (pretty much the norm for all the models).

A model where the PTs shoot and scoot (and mostly miss) but don't get hurt much in return would be more realistic but maybe a bit more boring (except for the code writers who would have to get the system to produce those kind of results).

By the time PT boats became ubiquitous, the Japanese had realized that taking surface warships anywhere near an Allied base was suicide. After the Solomons campaign (mostly early in the campaign), PT boats rarely engaged any Japanese warships. The only time after about mid-1943 I can recall was at Surgio Strait.

PT boats were a very cost effective short range weapon, and the Japanese recognized that and stayed away. I think the major reason PT boats get so many complaints is that Japanese players try to engage them much more than in the real world.

Though allowing PT boats to sit in open water out of fuel and still be able to put up a fight is not realistic. The surface combat model should take into account the movement point status of each combatant. A combatant that is at zero movement points due to being out of fuel, or low/at zero due to being damaged, should be at a significant disadvantage in durface combat. A fully mobile opponent should be at a major advantage.

Bill

[niceguy2005]

In reality didn't PTs serve a much larger role than attacking warships. I generally think of them as coastal patrol ships. Moving supplies and small parties of troops, scouting, general patrol. Not things that really show up much in the game.

I use them mainly around my forward bases to discourage bombardment fleets and raiders. Yeah they get blasted out of the water, but the capital ships expend a lot of their main gun ammo doing it.

Edit: OK I really didn't like that term guerilla warfare ships.

[rogueusmc]

I think they filled the Search and Rescue roll in the Solomons too didn't they?

[m10bob]

What do the other 6 guys do? I guess man the 37mm AT gun they stole and mounted on the bow?

Yamato Hugger...We prefer the term "liberated"....[;)]

[UniformYankee]

We called it 'appropriation'....

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: UniformYankee

We called it 'appropriation'....

First Shirt: "Clark, take Jones over 'n see if you can appropriate some smokes while Charlie company is on march!"

Clark: "Right, Top!"

Oh, yes...the memories come flooding back.......................[:D]

[DuckofTindalos]

"No Sir, that 37mm gun was just sitting there... Didn't look like anybody was using it..."

[Mike Scholl]

Given the lack of Japanese tanks in the Solomons Campaign, talking the Army or the Marines out of a few 37mm AT guns so you could sink some Japs BEFORE they got to your island was probably no more difficult than "Hey! We got us a case of beer..., do you have a spare AT Gun?"

[DuckofTindalos]

Well, there were cannister rounds for the 37mm AT guns. Worked a charm on Bloody Ridge.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, there were cannister rounds for the 37mm AT guns. Worked a charm on Bloody Ridge.

And at the Teneru River... My point was that the PT's were trying to sink the Japs BEFORE the got ashore..., a goal which the Marines and the Army would both find worthy.

[DuckofTindalos]

Yeah, yeah... I got ya...

[BrucePowers]

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc
I'd like to see a DD try to ram a PT...if the PT sees it coming, I don't think the DD has a chance.

Always wondered why this question wasn't asked more in the PT-109 story. How many guys had to be "asleep at the switch" for a DD to "sneak up and ram them"? Plenty of "heroism" after the fact --- but it would seem some "bumbling incompetence" would be needed to get there....

I think they said the visibility was under 100m...you'd think you'd hear a DD coming though...

With those 3 Packard 12 cylinder engines running[X(]

I don't care if they were muffled.