gunfight at Flavion

[tide1212]

I never could win that one [:(]

[1925frank]

A minor victory!  Just barely.  201 points.  Sweated the last French turn.  Started the last French turn with 204 points, lost three on the first or second French shot, and managed not to lose anymore during the following salvos.  I got very lucky.  It's after midnight.  Gotta run.

[Arthurmoment]

Thanks Frank - you've given me hope.
JR

[1925frank]

Here's my after-action report:

I didn't use the main roads.  I sent all my German companies to the west and up through the unpaved road going through the woods and up the hill.  (I'm using the top of the map as north, although that might not be what the compass on the 2d map shows.)  I bypassed Rosee to its west and went straight for the 50 point victory hex in the north, which I'll call the Route 36 Victory Hex.  For speed, I stayed in the open, but I stayed as far west as I could to avoid potshots from the B1-bis platoons on the main road.  I learned my lesson in the previous game, and I kept my HQs even further to the west and, at times, in the woods.  I sent my tank platoons up the unpaved wooded road to the southwest of the Route 36 Victory Hex, being careful to stay out of the sight of the B1-bis platoons on the main road.  I think this put me at a higher elevation than the Route 36 Victory Hex, and there was a woods screening me from all the B1-bis platoons on the main road.  After I got about two companies to the west and northwest of the Route 36 Victory Hex, I attacked it.  I think it was about turn 5 (out of 11) before any shots were fired by either side.  I was able to locate and destroy the French Battalion HQ and take the Route 36 Victory Hex.

There was a French leader that slipped away from the Route 36 Victory Hex.  I used other platoons that were still coming north to draw fire from the B1-bis platoons on the main road just south of the Route 36 Victory Hex.  I then eventually slipped a Panzer II platoon around the south side of the French leader.  I needed a little luck to isolate the French leader so he could not retreat into a safe hex, but I got that luck and eliminated the French leader.  Not only was he worth a lot of points, but I didn't want him helping the B1-bis platoons.

The B1-bis platoons made many counterattacks to take the Route 36 Victory Hex.  With the help of higher elevation, woods, the village hex, and German leaders, I was able to hold my own against the B1-bis platoons.  I was surprised at the number of B1-bis platoons that kept coming, and I was surprised at how well my tanks defended their positions.  There was also a French armored car platoon that joined the attack.  The armored cars were worth four VP per vehicle, and they were a lot easier to knock out than the B1-bis tanks. 

My last reinforcement company went went west like all the previous companies and went up the unpaved road, through the woods, and up the hill, but, unlike the other companies, the last company went into Rosee but made no immediate attempt to take the 25 point victory hex there.  I'll refer to that victory hex as the Rosee Victory Hex.  I took the unpaved road to Rosee, and two French AT guns repeatedly fired at me but were not able to hurt me.  The Panzer II platoon and the Panzer IV platoon were able to fire back and eliminate the French AT guns for some additional points.  Around turn 8, 9, or 10, I could see many B1-bis tanks heading north away from the Rosee Victory Hex to help in the attempt to retake the Route 36 Victory Hex.  On turn 11 (the last turn), I decided to make a run for the Rosee Victory Hex and found only one platoon of French infantry there.  My Panzer II platoon could neither disrupt nor force the French infantry platoon to retreat.  My Panzer IV platoon similarly could neither disrupt nor force the French infantry platoon to retreat.  One platoon of Panzer 38(t)s failed as well.  My last platoon of Panzer 38(t)s managed to force the French infanty platoon to retreat on its first shot.  All four platoons had enough AP to move into the vacated Rosee Victory Hex.  The French infantry platoon tried to retake the Rosee Victory Hex during the French turn 11 without success.  No B1-bis platoons attempted to retake the Rosee Victory Hex.

Meanwhile, back up at the Route 36 Victory Hex, I sent one company of tanks further north and then east around the woods and headed for the 50 point victory hex in Juzaine, which I'll refer to as the Juzaine Victory Hex.  A B1-bis platoon in the Juzaine Victory Hex would fire two shots every turn and succeeded in knocking out a few of my tanks as they headed east about four to six hexes north of the Juzaine Victory Hex.  I took up a position to the east of the Juzaine Victory Hex that was elevated and wooded.  On turn 10, the B1-bis platoon fired twice on my wooded position, and my platoon of Panzer 38(t)s retreated.  My Panzer IV platoon remained in the elevated wooded hex to the east.  On turn 11 (the last turn), the French Battalion HQ in the Juzaine Victory Hex lost its concealment.  I had no idea it was even there.   My Panzer IV platoon managed to eliminate the French Battalion HQ in one shot.  That was lucky.  If the Panzer IV platoon instead of the Panzer 38(t) platoon had been forced to retreat, the Panzer 38(t) platoon would have been far less able to take out a soft target at that range.  Also, if the French Battalion HQ had retreated, I don't think I would have had a second shot at it.

When the game ended, I saw there was just the one platoon of B1-bis protecting the French Battalion HQ in Juzaine.  I also saw there was a French Regimental HQ in Corenne just to the south of Juzaine.  There were French AT guns protecting the French Regimental HQ to its south, but there was nothing protecting it from its north, other than the B1-bis platoon in Juzaine.  I had effectively sucked virtually all the B1-bis into the attack on the Route 36 Victory Hex.

I obviously got very lucky.  Sometimes its better to be lucky than good.

[Viriathus]

As a EFII fan I've largely being playing its scenarios but, I have opened up WF to look at some North African action. I saw the Gunfight at Flavion scenario and inspired by this thread, I avoided reading the tactical suggestions, fired it up.

Got the shock of my life the first time, ended with a minor Axis defeat; second time a draw and third a minor Axis victory (230 points). Armour facing not on btw.

Has anyone managed a Major Victory against the AI?

Great scenario - short and tough but not riduculously so.

[junk2drive]

IF you like early war scens, try The Fatal Scythes as German vs AI.
 
Big Dawg and I PBEM'ed it and there wasn't much for the French player to do most of the turns. Twas some action at times though. Draw.

[Viriathus]

Thanks for the suggestion junk2drive. Took me a few goes to figure out how to beat it - good use of defensive features that hamper your advance. Looks like I might be getting into WF, now if only someone could suggest an interesting Rising Sun scenario and might open it up to. I did own RS originally but I lost interest in the repeated storming dug-in Japanese positions.

Can anyone suggest a short(ish) RS scenario that could tickle my fancy?

[Geomitrak]

Viriathus,

I recently played 'First Clash at Kohima' which was enjoyable. Also tried the very promising 'Lang Son Eastern Advance' which pits the Japanese against the Vichy French in Vietnam. It remains unfinished however, as I've now immersed myself in Hajo Baltjes' 440-turn 'Market Garden' scenario.

Regards
Paul

[Titanwarrior89]

Good thread I picked some pointers up[:)]

[vadersson]

For Rising Sun try the Kobouda Trail Linked Campaign Game. The scenarios are short by very fun and challenging. See what you think.

Thanks,
Duncan

[The Rattler]

Fighting Frenchman is a good scenario as well for some training and a test of your tactics against those french monsters.

[Przemos19]

I played this scenario last weekend and achieved draw if I recall corectly.. Panzer IV are the most useful - 8 hard attack, while Panzer IIIF and czech panzers 6 hard attack at point-blank range. I used smoke and assaults conducted by, in normal way, useless Pz II on single disrupted platoons. (1-2 vehicles each). Anyway very frustrating scenario. Like in East Front then you move Pz38t against t-34 and KV-1/8 in 1942 in southern front.

[XLVIIIPzKorp]

[font="Arial"]Okay, so I got curious and played this. I'm assuming you've all been playing the AI since that's what the scenario intends. I played with armor facing off since the AI doesn't deal with it very well. All I can say is concentrate, fire for disruptions, and annihilating assaults.



Note the loss of 55 CharB, very few by direct fire, mainly assault.





Fire only to disrupt, then use superior numbers and mobility for surrounded assaults.[/font]

[1925frank]

Wow.  That's impressive.  I'll have to give it another shot -- er -- assault.

[Jason Petho]

Most impressive, XLVIII Pz. Korp!

Amazing what can be accomplished with such skill!

Like chess, the game is easy to learn, but difficult to master.

Jason Petho

[XLVIIIPzKorp]

Thanks Jason.

And for anyone else reading this, what I really wanted to demonstrate particularly to people still learning this venerable game is how tactics have to be adopted to the situation. The Germans don't stand a chance if they try to do a toe to toe gunfight (despite the title) so another tactic must be found; disrupt, surround, assault. When I played this I advanced on three axis until I located most of the French forces. I then concentrated in the center and north. For some reason the AI rolled out into open terrain to sit and engage. I'd then pick the hexes I could isolate and assault. After burning up the AI's op-fire with light vehicles at longer ranges my MkIV's with leaders would close to a range of 2, most of the time with enough AP's for two shots remaining. These vehicles would engage as many targets as they could within that 2 hex range at 1-1 odds looking for disruptions. If I didn't get enough disruptions where I needed them the higher strength (5SP) Pz 35t's would close to a range of one (remember we exhausted most of the French op-fire) engaging at 1-2 odds. The higher strength platoons give more die rolls on the 1-2 table. This was usually enough to get the disruptions I required then the light vehicles and MkIII's would swarm on the assault. Many times the assaults were planned in an order that would retreat French units into adjacent hexes already containing more disrupted French units, setting up that hex for a final annihilating assault. One of these "chain assaults" resulted in the capture of 6 platoons of Char B's.

I remember when I first started playing CS back when it came out, I ran into T-34's and me with MkIII's and 38t's. I was ready to throw the CD through the monitor it was so frustrating... and that was playing the AI. I don't want to even think what human controled T-34's would've done to me. But I kept plugging away until I saw by accident just how powerful well executed assaults could be.

So after trying this scenario I figured I'd post my results and maybe keep some frustrated gamers from throwing their CD through their monitor. [:D]

[1925frank]

Thanks 48 Panzer Corps.  If left to my own devices, I'd still be waiting to invent the wheel.

[dominican]

Tried this scenario last night for the first time and barely managed a Draw with 102 points. About half way through it dawned on me, not having read this thread first - the power of the Axis is in the assault in this scenario - and the situation improved. Captured and held the 25 point VP hex in the south and the 50 VP hex in the east, but combat casualties were obviously about equal, only a slight plus on my side. Armor facing was turned off, the other options all on. Stretching the French defenses by going for two VP hexes at the same time helped, I think. The early German forces headed east then north while the reinforcements went up the center of the map.

48 PzK's showing was above and beyond.

[1925frank]

Well, I tried to focus more on assaults, and I improved my score to 251 -- still a minor victory, but an improvement over my previous best by 50 points.  The strength point differential was 248 to 72, and I had 75 hex VP.  I still had problems with the layering of French tanks.  Getting the French tanks disrupted and isolated was difficult.  Towards the end of the game, when the French tanks were attempting to retake the VP hexes, they would leave themselves open to isolation, but they still had to be disrupted.

For me, focusing on the assault aspect is like playing left-handed.  It makes sense though, because the German tanks can play on an even field or perhaps even with an advantage when viewed from the assault perspective.

[auHobbes37]

Now if someone will show us how to get a Major Victory in RS's "Blitzkreig in Malaya" as the Japanese. I managed to obtain, after several tries, a marginal Minor Victory.