I need a tutorial

[Grapeshot Bob]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Allright, there have been enough requests for this that we've decided to assign our manual writer to put together a tutorial guide for players that have not played EIA before. As he is also new to EIA, this should be right up his alley. The focus will be on anything a new player needs to know that may not be obvious in the current manual. I expect it will take a couple of weeks to get this ready, then we'll release it in PDF form in the Members Club.

Thanks!

You guys rock.

Thanks for being so responsive.



GSB

[gwheelock]

ORIGINAL: Alex777

ORIGINAL: gwheelock

Could it be better - the answer to that always has to be YES; but
I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect someone to actually
READ the manual before complaining about the deficiencies in it.

(& Someone complained that the manual was "pieces of the original
board game manual" [may have been on another thread] - please
remember that us "oldies" LEARNED THE GAME from that BOARDGAME
manual - no tips; no tutorials & mostly no-one to even ask questions
of)

Well, for the record, I have read the entire manual, highlighted the important bits, and taken some notes. It did not tell me what I needed to know about the UI.

I don't mean to be rude but - Us "newbies" don't care how you oldies learned the board game. We are buying a computer game and expect it to have proper documentation, like any other piece of software which is for sale commercially.

Well, for the record, I can point to posts IN THIS THREAD where people have said "The manual doesn't tell me how to do X" or
"What does Y mean?" and then I could (& did) post SCEEN-SHOTS from the MANUAL that tells EXACTLY how to do X or what Y means.

This means that THEY did NOT read the entire manual.

I am not claiming that the existing manual is perfect - far from it; but I do claim that it is UNFAIR to criticize it without reading it.

[Alex777]

<< I do claim that it is UNFAIR to criticize it without reading it.&nbsp; >>
&nbsp;
Agreed.
&nbsp;
<< (& Someone complained that the manual was "pieces of the original board game manual" [may have been on another thread] - please
remember that us "oldies" LEARNED THE GAME from that BOARDGAME manual - no tips; no tutorials & mostly no-one to even ask questions
of) >>
&nbsp;
What is the relevance of that?
&nbsp;

&nbsp;

[gwheelock]

ORIGINAL: Alex777

<< I do claim that it is UNFAIR to criticize it without reading it.  >>

Agreed.

<< (& Someone complained that the manual was "pieces of the original board game manual" [may have been on another thread] - please
remember that us "oldies" LEARNED THE GAME from that BOARDGAME manual - no tips; no tutorials & mostly no-one to even ask questions
of) >>

What is the relevance of that?

The relevance is that people were complaining that they didn't know what they SHOULD be doing (game-wise; not UI-wise) and
I was pointing out that the original manual WAS sufficient to explain the GAME mechanics because ALL of us "oldies" learned the
game solely from that boardgame manual.

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: Alex777

<< I do claim that it is UNFAIR to criticize it without reading it.  >>

Agreed.

<< (& Someone complained that the manual was "pieces of the original board game manual" [may have been on another thread] - please
remember that us "oldies" LEARNED THE GAME from that BOARDGAME manual - no tips; no tutorials & mostly no-one to even ask questions
of) >>

What is the relevance of that?

The relevance is that it proves it CAN be done. Furthermore, the old manual was an order of magnitude more complex, simply because the game wasn't "dumbed down" so PBEM could be accomplished. But, we still learned to play using even that manual.

Like gwheelock said: Don't read the in-game manual and call that reading the manual. That's the text-only version, and doesn't include much interface help. But, the manual you get when you click on "Game Manual" at the opening screen (the one with the big "PLAY" button) is pretty decent. I know I've gotten frustrated with the game, but almost every time, the problem was that I was trying to figure things out without referring to the manual. Hey! I'm a gamer! That's natural to me. We don't learn games by reading manuals. We learn them by playing, and only go to the manual in extreme situations.

This game is FAR too complex for that to work. It's not like Civilization or Age of Empires. In those games, you have to know 3-5 key concepts, and then you can learn the rest by playing. This game has dozens, along with a web of interconnections between rules.

The manual is (as was the boardgame) laid out in the order the game is played. So, grab the manual (or, put it up on your other monitor) and play a turn. Read the manual pages that apply. If one does that, one can pick it up fairly quickly.

However, don't expect to be an expert. This game is worse than poker in that respect: Good players will almost always defeat new players.

That's why I said to get a game together with one or two experts, who agree to play for TEACHING purposes, not to win. All of the communication between players should be kept open, so people can see the strategizing that occurs. Play just a year or so, and then start over with the knowledge you have gained.

[nukkxx5058]

civilization ?? age of empire ??? huh?&nbsp; never heard about ...

[timewalker03]

The one thing I have learned from reading this thread is that there are a lot of condescending people here on these forums. I really believe people should take into consideration that not everyone learns on the same level and that not everyone comprehends everything they read. A computer game when developed should always be approached in a manner that someone will buy the game who has no clue how to play it, and has no concept of the board game mechanics. A game like this is complicated for new people and the learning curve is sharp if a person is inexperienced in the original board game. The game should have had a tutorial because not all people who buy it will even come to these forums and see the help it can provide.

For those who are putting others down either directly or through wit and sarcasm try putting yourself in the shoes of someone struggling with the game. The people who need help may only be able to express their frustration by complaining and others will ask questions. Some people may not be able to spend hours and hours figuring out the UI or some may not be capable of figuring out the UI without help. When I spend money I don't want to feel like I have wasted time and the money on something like this. Some here seem to feel that way. It is now up to Matrix to figure out a way to change these peoples feelings about the game they purchased from them. They are now writing a tutorial which seems to not have been high on the list of things Matrix was going to provide. It is good they are doing it, and now it will be important to do this quickly to help those who need it before frustration takes its toll and people quit playing.

My one criticism about this game has been that time does not seem to matter when it comes to this game. It took 5+ years from announcement to release, and when released it was released with many many problems and as we see no tutorial. This game has unbelievable potential, but other than from the community not much support from Matrix. It will come slowly as did the development. Good luck to all who are having trouble, and hopefully for those who have little patience for those having trouble you will find some patience or have the heart to ignore those in need and let them get help from those who truely want and are trying to help others.

[zaquex]

I have said it before and I will say it again, the manual is mainly a rule book, it explains the concepts and underlying rules of the game. It does that reasonably well. It is however a simplified version of the boardgame rules and reading the original is no doubt a better source for understanding the game even if sometimes ambiguous.

It is however not a UI manual or "how to" guide. I will argue that by reading the manual one could probably learn what can be done and therefore with effort figure out how to do it. This is however not an ideal situation. With the boardgame one could always "fuzz it", while with the computer game, not being able to figure out how to do certain things makes it impossible to continue.

I have the advantage of a fairly good understanding of EiA and it still took me a while to figure out how certain things are done in EiANW. I have no problem to imagine how much easier people without any experience of EiA would learn the game with a proper UI guide. The UI isn't always exactly logical or intuitive and a UI guide is in my opinion whats missing.

This doesn't change the fact that EiA is a game that probably requires careful reading of the rule book, not once but repeatedly, before one starts to grasp the more subtle effects of certain combination of rules on gameplay and strategy. So even with a UI guide, if you're not prepared to read the rulebook, EiANW is probably not the game for you.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

I never played EiA either. Best way to learn something like this is by doing. Skim the manual to get an idea of things. Play some to learn the interface. Read some more of the manual. Play some more. Try playing several months of each country to get a feel for its capabilities and limitations, and to see how different situations develop with the AI on easy/medium settings. (The AI has its weaknesses but provides a useful tutoring role.) At some point, sit down with the manual and start to study it. Then start playing against increasing difficulty settings. And read these forums, ask questions, get tips, etc.

After several weeks now, I am still making stupid mistakes as I blunder along to higher peaks of glory. But every game is interesting and fun. Each major power has its own unique challenges and rewards. You really have to see things in action during several games to appreciate the nuances. A tutorial would help teach the mechanics of a game turn, but these things can still be learned in a few days. And most of the game mechanics are really simple once you know what they do and where to go in the interface. The manual does explain most of these things well enough.

This is how most of us learned to play the Board Game and I can tell you it was much more painful since the "rulebook" was more like "guidelines", as they say.

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

This is how most of us learned to play the Board Game and I can tell you it was much more painful since the "rulebook" was more like "guidelines", as they say.

Did you by any chance see Pirates Of The Caribbean? [:)] [&:] If you didn't then I really misread your sentence, but if you did then we know what you said. "More like guidelines" was a quote they kept saying throughout the movie.

[nukkxx5058]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Allright, there have been enough requests for this that we've decided to assign our manual writer to put together a tutorial guide for players that have not played EIA before. As he is also new to EIA, this should be right up his alley. The focus will be on anything a new player needs to know that may not be obvious in the current manual. I expect it will take a couple of weeks to get this ready, then we'll release it in PDF form in the Members Club.

Any update/progress regarding the tutorial? Thanks

[AminMaalouf]

ORIGINAL: Grapeshot Bob

A quick start guide showing basic unit placement, movement, supply, combat, diplomacy settings and economics would be very useful.

I support.

Question: Where can I redownload the file with the premade army-setup?

Thank you

[Minedog]

I would like to see a guide to the interface. As an EiA board game player, the actions within the game are apparent to me (except the decisions made by the AI, which are appalling). However, there are not too many guides to how the interface actually works. As someone noted, if you click, right click and double click every conceivable place, eventually something might work, but since there is no consistency to this, a guide would be nice.

Two examples that I found very annoying;
1. Placing a Minor Corps on map during setup. There is of course a little icon for the Counter Pool, where you can choose the corps. What isn't apparent is that a new country counter pool will not open when you have another country counter pool already open. So when I had the France counter pool open to setup and then I selected Holland, why wouldn't the Holland counter pool open up. No error message, no help. 30 minutes of fiddling around to stumble onto that one (because of course I had to explore every other option).

2. Selecting an outflanking force. Choosing the chit is easy. The forces come up, I click on one, I click Done. Nothing happens. I consult the manual, I try dragging the units, shift click, cntrl click, back to the manual (page 69 is dog-earred) and after 20 minutes wasted I an just frustrated and about to terminate the programme when in a fit of rage I double click the unit (actually it was about 5 thumps on the mouse key). Bingo, the unit shifts. Not altogether sure if that unit outflanked or pinned, but at least something happened. AFAIK, this is the only time that double click works in this game, everything else requires a click here and a click on OK or Done. A right click pull down menu would be fantastic!

Overall, I'd rate this as one of the worst computer games I've purchased in a long time. I knew there were problems with the strategic AI, but given the development time I expected better of the game interface and the tactical AI. A map zoom out would be very helpful. Even with a wide screen, I can't really scope the entire enemy force.

[gwheelock]

OK; here is some answers for anyone else having this problem

1) How to place minor country corp:





2) Outflank force selection - the corp you selected by DOUBLE CLICKING is the
OUTFLANK force not the PINNING force (& you can move corp back to the pinning
force by double clicking it again)

does this help?

[Minedog]

OK, next interface problems.

1. Combat Battle screen comes up looking for a chit choice. I know the battle is a town XXX, but I can't recall if there is an adjacent connection to area YYYY where if Mr. High Ugliness with a large army sits. This will very much effect my chit choice of course. For that matter, I can't see if there is a large enemy army nearby either.

How do I minimise the combat screen to look at the map?

2. Units on the map obscure the forage value in the area.

How do I move them over or make them invisible to see the forage value of the area?

3. A leader is with two corps, one Infantry and one Cavalry. Last time he was with the infantry, but in my Land Move phase I want him to move with the cavalry.

How do I unattach the leader from the infantry corps and attach him to the cavalry corps in the Land Move Phase (or even the Reinforcement Phase)?

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: Minedog

OK, next interface problems.

1. Combat Battle screen comes up looking for a chit choice. I know the battle is a town XXX, but I can't recall if there is an adjacent connection to area YYYY where if Mr. High Ugliness with a large army sits. This will very much effect my chit choice of course. For that matter, I can't see if there is a large enemy army nearby either.

How do I minimise the combat screen to look at the map?

2. Units on the map obscure the forage value in the area.

How do I move them over or make them invisible to see the forage value of the area?

3. A leader is with two corps, one Infantry and one Cavalry. Last time he was with the infantry, but in my Land Move phase I want him to move with the cavalry.

How do I unattach the leader from the infantry corps and attach him to the cavalry corps in the Land Move Phase (or even the Reinforcement Phase)?

[8|]Countdown until some idiot says "read the manual" 10,9,8,7,6,5...........

[zaquex]

1. is tricky, dont think it can be done, study the map before you go to battle - take notes if necisary.
&nbsp;
2. select the province and right click on the area that normally show the the units stacked there(down right on the screen under the buttons that switches what units you want to see)
&nbsp;
3. during the land phase you can use the top right button of the phase-action menu to detach a leader and the top-left button to attach. Make sure you dont forget to attach your leader after you detach him, leaders cant move on there own.
&nbsp;
&nbsp;

[Minedog]

ORIGINAL: zaquex

1. is tricky, dont think it can be done, study the map before you go to battle - take notes if necisary.

I can't take notes on moves and battles I don't make. So suppose I set up Napoleon and 4 big corps in an area, a small corps in an area to his left and a small corps in an area to his right. When the battle to his left comes up, how can I tell if there is not also a battle to his right as well?

Of course the AI just runs 3 corps in Napoleon, so it isn't a problem... Somehow PBeM opponents won't be as foolish.

ORIGINAL: zaquex
2. select the province and right click on the area that normally show the the units stacked there(down right on the screen under the buttons that switches what units you want to see)

I'll check again, but I think I know what you are talking about here. Thanks.

ORIGINAL: zaquex
3. during the land phase you can use the top right button of the phase-action menu to detach a leader and the top-left button to attach. Make sure you dont forget to attach your leader after you detach him, leaders cant move on there own.

I fiddled and fiddled with these, but couldn't make it work. Can you be more specific on the actions? Do I select the leader or the unit if I am detaching, and conversely attaching later on. It seemed to me it had to be those buttons, but somehow they didn't detach the leader.

[zaquex]

dont have the game in front of me but...

select the corp press detach to remove the leader

and

what i recall press the attach button then right click (on the corp?)and u get a menu of available leaders (i might be wrong im using my poor memory here, ill test check once i get home and have access to the game)

[Minedog]

Thanks, I didn't realise there was a separate detach leader button. My mistake there.

The big issue now is how to see the map when a battle comes up. Seems insane to me that you can't do so, but I just can't figure out where it could be..