Broken Land Movement

[Andy Mac]

Don't know how to answer all this - I have had a similar issue in another game and its a strange one none of the folks around now were involved in defining the original game rules so I cannot and will not speak for them.
 
In my experience of playing WITP it is not possible to move to an empty hex from a ZOC if the enemy is bombarding as it cancels movement but as long as you have control of the hex you are trying to move to and your opponent is not bombading you should be able to move to the empty hex below roadblock 2 - this is from other gamesand is my personal experience certainly thats how it worked for me and Pauk in our game
 
Plotting movement to Magwe that probably would work if the order is reset it certainly should as Rtrapasso said after the old orders are wiped.
 
If that doesnt work why aandon a game after three years surely your opponent - like Pauk did for me - realising its illogical could just move the blocking force for a turn to let you out ?
 
Re AE we have redone ZOC and LCU movement in AE but would I want to guarantee that issues like this or a whole set of new ones won't arise - no  -we are doing our best but there are limits we test for issues we know may arise but obscure ones can and will catch us out.
 

[DesertedFox]

Hi Andy, thx for your response.

I am awaiting to see what happens in next move, but really cant see why it would work, but hey its worth a try.

I dont read the forums like I used to but why does bombard cancel movement orders? Haven't read it anywhere, but like I said, haven't read much for the last year or so, and to my knowledge haven't seen it in any rules or rule changes.

His bombardment from what I can tell hasn't cancelled my movement orders, they have just changed direction and sat at 59 miles, which is not cause dby the bombard but the "blocking".

I can see from the rules that an adjacent unit MAY block pathing but what are the definitions of MAY? As you can see I have a clear 60 mile wide corridor free of the enemy, with supplies coming in.

Anyway, appreciate yout response, I shall let you know of the turn I have submitted when my opponent lets me know.

I hope AE does address this issue, as land combat/movement is definately the weakest link in this game.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

hi rtrapasso,

I have already sent the turn off as you suggested, yes the 59 mile remain in effect though the movement did change to NE, let see, though I doubt it will work.

I know YOU are trying to help me but some of your suggestions I TOTALLY disagree with. An enemy unit is in a 60 miles hex, fully engaged with my troops. 60 miles away, no enemy, my troops only, supplies are getting through, yes supplies are getting through but you are saying its reasonable to expect some Japs to slip past my troops, walk 60 miles through the jungle and somehow prevent armed troops moving but somehow missing the supply troops. I cannot agree with that.Now you are saying that crossing the jungle is the problem, sorry bro, but that is fantasy as well. if there was a road running from Rangoon NE (which there is already) and them directly East (which there isnt) you say my troops could move? They would not.

I have reread the bit

If the unit is in a hex with an enemy unit, that unit can only plot to move to a friendly base. Note that the movement may not be executed, if an enemy unit is adjacent, blocking or later blocks the path

and so yes that units is adjacent to my path, but that is 60 miles away, the enemy unit is already engaged and I have garrissoned the path. To say its reasonable for this happen is IMHO totally unrealistic.

I appreciate your respones, but this is a support forum, and this situaton is totally fubar, and needs to be addressed. Thus I will complain,

I am not a fly by night WITP player after 5 solid years, this is wrong and sturpid and doesn't make sense. My opponent agrees with me. Are we the only two who can see the stupidity of this situatiuon?

Okay I have one final question to ask and would appreciate a logical respone, why is it my supplies get through but my troops cannot move along the same path?

If I get a common sense reasonable answer to this I will be very surprised.

The game map is what it is... if you want to change it, feel free.

The troops are now marching to the NE according to you... so don't say something is broken just because you do not know how to make it work.

Evidently, you just want to argue and complain, so i will no longer reply to any of your messages.

[DesertedFox]

Get real rtrapasso,

The game is not working as common sense would dictate. Did you read Andys post above, the current situation for me is yes working as per the rules, but it doesn't make sense, he agrees with this, though there is nothing to be done about it re WITP, but hopefully AE will be different. I will complain if something isn't right, and as it turns out I am right.

If you believe the situation makes sense you might be on your own there, but regardless, whilst I do not agree with many of your comments, you are free to make them.

No I am not looking for an arguement but a game that makes sense.

Feel free not to reply to my comments as you stated, I will not loose any sleep over it.

Oh, I wasn't going to comment on one of your suggestions, but I will now. You suggested trying moving to Akyab, ah lets see now, that base is Jap controlled and that definately wont work. But gee thanks for the advice.

[jwilkerson]

DF, well it seems as though you have worn the patience of the available help. Our motto is to "be helpful" - but a modicum of respect on all sides, goes a long way.

There are many issues in the game that are far from perfect. This would be one of 1000. Yet despite the imperfections, people keep playing and posting. I'd suggest taking a deep breath and then decide whether this one issue is a show stopper for you - and then act accordingly.

Thx.

Joe

[DesertedFox]

Hi Joe, loosing 150,000 allied troops due to a game oversight is a show stopper for me.

My appologies for pointing out a serious game problem and thinking that hey maybe we can avoid this in AE.

Funnily enough it was only acknowledged as a problem late in the thread, not early. So had I not persisted nothing would have been achieved.

I had a good laugh at some of the explanations given from people who will say anything to make this game look better than it is.
Kudos to you though for admiting it has problems at least and you didnt come up with a stupid explation of the problem like some others.

If I was to continue playing, which I will not now, I certainly wouldn't raise any issues I found as the reception I received here apart from Andy was less than intelligent and open minded.

Oh, by the way I didnt start the nasty comments if you read the whole thread, my comments were in RESPONSE to lack of respect show to me first.

Also just got the reply from my opponet, my troops are still stuck.

Game over and signing out.

[goodboyladdie]

Why don't you just go on the defensive at Rangoon until you can clear your supply lines? You can supply the minimum requirements by air if necessary while you build up to destroy his road block units. I do not see why you have to punish your long term opponent with the loss of the game for his having the good sense to throw units across your supply lines to slow your offensive down. If I had exposed myself to similar issues by pushing too far on in jungle terrain, without paying heed to my flanks, I would applaud my opponent's good play, curse the game (well you've got to blame something [;)]) and set about trying to fix my mess, certainly after the time you have both invested.

This is not intended to provoke flame, just offer a different perspective. You are obviously a committed wargamer and it seems a shame to throw all that work away.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox


I havent read all the stuff re AE, but I will not buy it if crap like this isnt fixed.

The crap like this is fixed in AE.....except in AE if the Japanese entered Rangoon from the east you would be prevented from exiting to the east....Hexside ZOC's.

One tester walked himself into a trap in AE because he was used to marching wherever he chose in WitP.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox


If I was to continue playing, which I will not now, I certainly wouldn't raise any issues I found as the reception I received here apart from Andy was less than intelligent and open minded.

Oh, by the way I didnt start the nasty comments if you read the whole thread, my comments were in RESPONSE to lack of respect show to me first.

So Bob's suggestions were less than intelligent? That sounds like disrepect to me.

What disrepect was directed at you? Bob merely provided a real world anecdote to try and explain how the game was acting and you disagreed with him...and insisted the game was broken.

The game is what it is... regardless of whether it is correct or not...and Matrix provided documentation in the "What's New" describing the ZOC rule design....whether the design is flawed or not..it appears to be WAD.

With that said the design has been changed for AE....so crap like that shouldn't happened....which is not to say that a whole other bag of crap may happen.

[DesertedFox]

Treespider I will refrain from commenting on your comments to stop the increasing antagonism in this thread. Though I do like that you have clarified that this has been fixed in AE. Funilly enough no one, apart from the possible exception of Andy saw a pronblem with whats happening here. Now all of sudden the thread is full of of yes its broken but fixed in AE and comments flaming me.

Yes, I have already admitted that the game is responding to as designed, though initially I didnt think so. My object then was to point out how flawed this design is, Andy agreed with its faults but could not confirm that its fixed in AE as you have just done.

Goodboyladdie I waited about two weeks before moving into Rangoon, (that northern Jap unit was already there) I wanted to close off the escape route of the northern Jap unit and wanted to be sure that if I got into trouble I could move out of Rangoon. I was POSITIVE according to the rules I could, and a common sense look at the map tells you that it should be possible. My common sense was correct but my undersdtanding of the rules wasn't.

Now I am stuck there lossing 1,000 men a day to bombardment and it will take me forever to remove the Jap obstacle in the north and withput the help of the stuck troops impossible to remove the Jap block to the East.

My bad for not fully understanding the rules, Matrix bad for designing such rules.

Now please dont come back and say that how can I say the rules are bad, well firstly, common sense, and secondly, Matrix have changed this in AE in recognition of its fault.

So to all of you above who tried to explain this fault as logical....no lets not go there.

[Charbroiled]

DF, If both you and your oponent think that the game is "broken" because of this situation, have him agree to stop bombarding you at Rangoon and plot your move one hex to the NE.

What these people are trying to tell you is correct as far as the game mechanics work. You plotted a course to Magwe. The road between Magwe and Rangoon is contested (hit the "w" key and you will see a "J" and a "A" for the road block 1 hex). Your movement orders are going to stop at "59" because the computer can not longer plot a path to Magwe. IMO, the only thing wrong with the game is that bombarding stops movement, but it is like that for the whole game.....nothing new.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

Hi Joe, loosing 150,000 allied troops due to a game oversight is a show stopper for me.

My appologies for pointing out a serious game problem and thinking that hey maybe we can avoid this in AE.

Funnily enough it was only acknowledged as a problem late in the thread, not early. So had I not persisted nothing would have been achieved.

I had a good laugh at some of the explanations given from people who will say anything to make this game look better than it is.
Kudos to you though for admiting it has problems at least and you didnt come up with a stupid explation of the problem like some others.

If I was to continue playing, which I will not now, I certainly wouldn't raise any issues I found as the reception I received here apart from Andy was less than intelligent and open minded.

Oh, by the way I didnt start the nasty comments if you read the whole thread, my comments were in RESPONSE to lack of respect show to me first.

Also just got the reply from my opponet, my troops are still stuck.

Game over and signing out.

Well Deserted, glad I was able to give you an opportunity to show your true colors. Perhaps there are other games and forums that will better meet your needs.

[DesertedFox]

Well blow be down, I thought my previous post (not the one quoted by Joe) might end the negativity in this thread but ole Joe had to prove me wrong, its continues.

Actually Joe, your last post shows your true colours.

As it appears there is nothing positive left to say in this thread Joe, how about you close it, and you and I can get on with our lives secure in the knowledge we have the same low opinon of each other.

[Gem35]

yes please close this thread so this idiot can fade away.

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox



Its EXTREMELY hard to keep the sarcasmSad to say that, I, although a veteran of 5 years with this game, but hardly a rule or code expert have to find the reason for these units not moving.

From the "Whats New"

If the unit is in a hex with an enemy unit, that unit can only plot to move to a friendly base. Note that the movement may not be executed, if an enemy unit is adjacent, blocking or later blocks the path.

So now we know its the Jap units (adjacent) E of Rangoon which are preventing this movement. As there are NO BLOCKING units, just look at the picture to confirm this.

Okay, so can whomever came up with this rule please explain to me how this makes sense. Yes I would like an offical Martix response.

My units are receiving supply, but cannot move back along that SAME route. Those Jap units E of Rangoon are fully engaged by my units in the same hex.

I cannot wait for this explanation, it should give me good a laugh, goodness knows I need one.




Actually this gets better. I just checked the map with Zones on the hex NW of Rangoon is Allied controlled.So why dont my unitts move along that route that way they are not moving next to any Japs units and still my path is way less than the 18 cross country hexes I am allowed to move to a friendly path.

Its EXTREMELY hard to keep the sarcasm out of my tone as this particular game has been going for three years (real time) and now its looks like it will be abandoned becasue of this.

Deserted Fox, don't go away mad. Just go away! No one here needs or wants this type of abuse, and those trying very patiently to provide help absolutely do not deserve it.

You don't like this game, so don't play it. WitP sure doesn't need you. [8|]

[USSAmerica]

My, my.  I just finished reading the rest of this thread, and I have to say I was "shocked", just shocked, to see that the abuse continued and became more irrational.  [8|]
 
My apologies to everyone for inadvertently perpetuating Deserted Fox's existence in the WitP universe.  [:(]