what is GOING ON??

[Andrew Williams]

Panther Turret side armor is thicker than turret frontal armor... corrections are being made and the data is being doble checked through out.


Still, my Panthers are ruling the battlefield, I just need more of them 

[AT_Salky]

Haha, i missspelled my name, how cool... [:D] 
 
Well, anyway, there is nothing wrong with turret armoure, Schreck dont change it. Its the Shermans 75mm that the bugger in this one.
 
Yep than for looking into things.
(darn i would lobve a H2H game)
 
Thanx again.

[Neil N]

ORIGINAL: AT_Salky

Haha, i missspelled my name, how cool... [:D] 

Well, anyway, there is nothing wrong with turret armoure, Schreck dont change it. Its the Shermans 75mm that the bugger in this one.

Yep than for looking into things.
(darn i would lobve a H2H game)

Thanx again.

Actually, checking the current Panther armor data...both hull and turret...there were some pretty big innacuracies in the values that were entered.

[AT_Salky]

My answer was in regard to:
Qoute "Panther Turret side armor is thicker than turret frontal armor... "

You see, Only the Front side has such value that is higher then the actual front, the side in it self has not, So, that "front side" shall not be shanged so it has lower values than the pure front. That was what I talked about...

And ofcose, as u say, Qoute "there were some pretty big innacuracies in the values that were entered. " I would really agree on that statement, and its as I said that goes for many of the data entrys in current WaR version.

Make me wonder, why this was not spotted by the testers of WaR? It was first thing I saw playing it. And how come it was relised with as u said,  "pretty big innacuracies in the values" in first place...

Anyway... Hope you now understood what i meant?

Who made the vehicles grapix? They are really cool.
Again, cool work men.

[CaptRio]

ORIGINAL: Neil N

Yes, not sure what went wrong with the calculators when armor and penetration was being calculated, but rest assured that tank armor values and weapon penetration values are being corrected for the next patch

That's very nice to know...

But im playing the 25 days GC as germans, do you guys already know when we should be getting that patch? Cause with such error Im considering to wait for its release before getting back to my campaign.

[PDiFolco]

Haha, all hail those grognards that spot bad penetration/armor data after 2 hits! [:D]
But I thought German tanks may have been voluntarily nerfed, to give some chances to the US armor, as in the game you can't field 5 Sherms for every KT [:-], with the 15 units max ...

btw how do you do guys to "check the values" in the data files ? I tried to do that too, but it's a mess of numbers, no header, no doc ...[&:]

[Neil N]

Andrew posted a link to the data workbook last week.  The version available is 4503DR, so I think this may even have some of the data changes in it.

WaR Downloads

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: CaptRio

ORIGINAL: Neil N

Yes, not sure what went wrong with the calculators when armor and penetration was being calculated, but rest assured that tank armor values and weapon penetration values are being corrected for the next patch

That's very nice to know...

But im playing the 25 days GC as germans, do you guys already know when we should be getting that patch? Cause with such error Im considering to wait for its release before getting back to my campaign.

Let's give the developers all the time they need to go through the whole tables for all vehicles...no software is perfect...however we have a great support here for this game so no worries, it will get done.

[squadleader_id]

ORIGINAL: CaptRio

ORIGINAL: Neil N

Yes, not sure what went wrong with the calculators when armor and penetration was being calculated, but rest assured that tank armor values and weapon penetration values are being corrected for the next patch

That's very nice to know...

But im playing the 25 days GC as germans, do you guys already know when we should be getting that patch? Cause with such error Im considering to wait for its release before getting back to my campaign.

A patch with just data changes won't mess up your GC saved games...so just go ahead with your GC.
And for the grognards...good job spotting the weapons/armor data inaccuracies, guys! [&o]
I hope some of the 'cosmetic' glitches I posted at CCS will be considered for fixing in the patch.

[sargexmy]

nice video

did you notice those panthers got their guns damaged so quickly?

Same thing happened to me when my panthers were attacking;

This 57mm AT gun damaged the gun for the first panther in the second shot
I tried to get another panther to get the gun, but it missed.  Then 57mm fired and damaged that panther's gun! [:@]
(these panthers were facing the 57mm AT gun frontally)

I had to get a third panther to kill the at gun from the flank.

but yeah wonder if panthers in real life got their guns damaged so quickly?! [&:]

[Tejszd]

sargexmy,

As per AT_Salky;

The Panther hull has (correctly pointed out by Schrecky) 3 different thickness of armoure depending on what relative hight the duell take place from, the thickness set for Panther front hull in WaR is : 291mm, 184mm, 135mm, that means that a slight or rather mimimal (-) chance to penetrate the hull. The panthers turret is the weak point, its front armourer is: 122mm, 113mm, 110mm, the chance of hit the turret compared to the hull is 30% (29.68%) so, basically every 3 rd shot the Sherman has the a good chance to kill or damage the panther (in WaR). In reality that chance would be close to null.

What you are seeing makes sense, the turret really is the weak point of the Panther. The 75mm probably is a bit over rated in the data but that will not affect what it can do against the turret. One thing that can be debated is the 30% chance to hit the turret but I would think the turret is 20% to 30% of the height of the tank so it wouldn't be much off....

[Moss Orleni]

ORIGINAL: AT_Salky

Well, anyway, there is nothing wrong with turret armoure, Schreck dont change it. Its the Shermans 75mm that the bugger in this one.

Indeed, and to be more specific: the Kill Rating values of the 75mm/L40 are those of the 7.5cm/L48 in the CC5 stock game (which was overrated already and roughly correspond to the 7.5cm/L70 data used in GJS)... a Sherman with a PzIVH or Panther gun, now that's what I call a fine medium tank! [:)]

ORIGINAL: AT_Salky

Yep than for looking into things.
(darn i would lobve a H2H game)

Thanx again.

We're already enjoying ours [8D]. What happened to your H2H partner-in-crime Dima?

[Platoon_Michael]

I couldnt figure out where exactly this post needed to go but the title of this thread was dead on when I saw this message.

Is this something new or has it always been in CCV?

[Stwa]

ORIGINAL: sargexmy

nice video

did you notice those panthers got their guns damaged so quickly?

Same thing happened to me when my panthers were attacking;

This 57mm AT gun damaged the gun for the first panther in the second shot
I tried to get another panther to get the gun, but it missed.  Then 57mm fired and damaged that panther's gun! [:@]
(these panthers were facing the 57mm AT gun frontally)

I had to get a third panther to kill the at gun from the flank.

but yeah wonder if panthers in real life got their guns damaged so quickly?! [&:]

Its all tanks, dood, not just the Panthers. Ive seen it happen on the first shot many times. Shermans, Panzer IV's, etc.... Sometimes it makes the Vehcicle Shootout a real drag...

[:)]

[Tejszd]

Platoon_Michael,

Retreating is new in CC with WAR and not being able to move the turn after is a penalty for having that happen.

[Tejszd]

Its all tanks, dood, not just the Panthers. Ive seen it happen on the first shot many times. Shermans, Panzer IV's, etc.... Sometimes it makes the Vehcicle Shootout a real drag...

What percentage of shots should hit the turret? For panthers it is set at 30%, for the other tanks it varies. I would assume that the value is a guess based on the size of the tank / turret.

One positive thing about turret hits, is that your tank isn't dead. You can still drive it and use the MG's thus you have a chance of saving that experienced crew for another day.

[sargexmy]

ORIGINAL: Tejszd

Its all tanks, dood, not just the Panthers. Ive seen it happen on the first shot many times. Shermans, Panzer IV's, etc.... Sometimes it makes the Vehcicle Shootout a real drag...

What percentage of shots should hit the turret? For panthers it is set at 30%, for the other tanks it varies. I would assume that the value is a guess based on the size of the tank / turret.

One positive thing about turret hits, is that your tank isn't dead. You can still drive it and use the MG's thus you have a chance of saving that experienced crew for another day.

Hi,
wait...does this mean that all turret hits will result in Gun Damage?? Then that means ~30% chance of gun damage is quiet high! even considering there is the "roll of dice" effect. I did not know that all turret hits caused gun damages.

I remember playing Combat Mission, when the panther's turret was hit, it was a ricochet most of the time or shell broke up. rarely is there a gun hit resulting damage.

[Tejszd]

No, hitting the turret doesn't guarantee that the turret will be damaged. There would be at least another die roll/percentage to see if or what the damage would be (I have never seen the code so I do not know how many calculations/die rolls are done to get to the final damage done).

A developer would have to answer to give you a better breakdown of everything that is calculated/considered.

[Andrew Williams]

See the video

One Panther takes 20 hits or so without gun damage.


http://closecombat.matrixgames.com/WaR/ ... nther.html

[TheReal_Pak40]

Is there a value in the excel file that controls the % chance to disable the gun if the front turret is hit?