Round two - DING YH v TS

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

It can convert to an "E" in AE. Thats sort of like a DE, but not. Clear as mud?

LOL I have the ship types saved. Gotta start studying them. [:D]

[rhohltjr]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Ok, I will inform the guys that write the code to make sure the grammar is correct. Look for AE around Christmas - off topic, I just opened a brand new on-line pitchfork shoppe for anyone interested [:D]

Since you mentioned this,.... will there be any way for us to edit these 'poor' grammar messages ourselves? Everything seems to be very customizable with AE. However, even if not...don't bother those code writers.[:-]or Testers. Don't tug on supermans cape, don't spit into the wind, .....[8|]

[Yamato hugger]

Dec 11:

4 DDs sink an allied AK near Morotai.

2 DDs find and sink an allied AK near Taytay later getting another near Puerto Princesa and engage yet another north of Taytay (completely circling the island). This one gets away without damage as I am almost totally out of ammo. Chokai and Sagiri drop off the 4th JNAF co at Taytay and go in different directions. Chokai finds an AK south of Taytay but fails to engage her. Battle range started at 20,000yd and increased, probably because her mission is still fast transport. S-37 shoots 4 fish at Sagiri north of Taytay and the DD responds with 2 hits on the sub.

6 Bettys put 1 hit on each of 2 PGs at Roxas. Sinking sounds were heard later and no afternoon attack on this force so Im guessing they sank.

4 Zeros sweep Bataan and down 1 of the 2 P-40s that came up to play.

6 Bettys attack 2 DDs at San Jose but score no hits.

3 Zeros sweep Singapore downing 1 of the 8 Buffs that intercept. 10 more sweep later in the morning and shoot down 2 more.

6 Zeros sweep Manila and damage 4 P-40s.

42 Sallys raid Kuantan scoring several hits but no enemy aircraft destroyed.

9 Anns escorted by 13 Nates is intercepted by 3 Flying Tigers over Changsha no shoot downs but an A-29 is reported destroyed on the ground.

Sonias with Nate escort attack ground troops east of Changsha.

7 Flying Tigers sweep Nanchang and shoot down 1 Nate.

B-17s from Kendari launch several 2 plane strikes throughout the day on ships and bases south of the PI to no effect.

78 Nells and Bettys raid Iba on Luzons west coast. 2 P-26s intercept. 2 P-40s reported destroyed on the ground.

More raids on Hong Kong and northern Malaya for no effect.

13 Anns attack ground troops in central Malaya and lose 6 to intercepting Buffs.

Artillery bombardment of Hong Kong.

Orphan Ann of radio Tokyo reports Guam has fallen to Imperial forces.

The 3 islands south of Mindanao that were landed on yesterday fall along with Legaspi.

[Iron Duke]

'Orphan Ann of radio Tokyo reports Guam has fallen to Imperial forces'

are there more instances of Orphan ann/Toyko Rose messages? and do they just appear in the combat reports or are there additional sound bites?

[Grotius]

Actually, I've been wondering whether we might *hear* more of Radio Tokyo in AE. And maybe a greater variety of spotting messages? I seem to have "spotted enemy carriers" every other day.

Has there been any change to the game's sound and music?

[Yamato hugger]

Oh you get them when the Jap takes key objectives or wins a naval battle near certain places on the map. Like when a DD forces sinks an AK near Hong Kong for example she says something to the effect: Imperial head quarters reported today that the enemy was defeated at Hong Kong. Enemy losses were 2 battleships, a carrier, and numerious other cruisers and destroyers.

[Yamato hugger]

Dec 12:

CA Chokai finds and sinks AS Canopus in the sentral PI. And a little while later dispatches an AK.

6 DDs patrolling Leyte Gulf sink the Langley.

Natori, Kuma and 4 DDS sink an AK about 80 miles south of Bataan.

Houston, Marblehead and 5 DDs try to mess with the landing at Talaud Island (half way between Davao and Mindano) amd meet a force of 4 DDs. 1 hit on each of 2 Jap DDs, 1 US DD sunk and 2 more with heavy fires and damage and break off. The remaining US force engages again after the sun comes up heavily damaging 2 Jap DDs for which they lost another DD and the last one heavy damage and fires. Suzukaze sinks, Umikaze probably wont make it home (60 some flood and only 22 major and a long way from a port). All 5 US DDs show up on sink ships report. Houston and Marblehead only lightly damaged and retiring west towords Balikpapan.

That battle covered the southern end of the invasion of Davao. The 146th inf reg and elements of the 8th tank reg land today. Elements of the 81st nav gd land on Jolo.

4 TBs covering the Busuanga landing force engages 4 DDs and sinks 1 lightly damaging 2 others. A base force and Southern Fleet HQ land there. Busuanga is a level 3 port 120 miles due SW of Bataan and will be used as a front line repair shop. 2 of the TBs were moderately damaged, but will put in to this port after it falls for emergency repairs. Adm Marushige in the Kuma with the Natori and DD escort remains on station to protect the landing forces.

25 Zeros sweep Bataan destroying 3 P-26s that came up to play.

16 Zeros sweep Singapore claiming 7 of 8 Buffs.

37 Sallys raid Kuantan losing 1 to AA fire.

34 twin engine bombers hit Iba in 2 raids damaging the airfield.

3 Anns were lost to AA fire over Hong Kong bombing port facilities and troops.

35th div assaults the 8th New Chinese/A Corps SE of Kaifeng at 660:1 odds and gets this:
Allied ground losses:
Units destroyed 1


Ground combat at Kweiteh (90,46)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 11999 troops, 102 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 378

Defending force 3015 troops, 36 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 93

Japanese max assault: 830 - adjusted assault: 664

Allied max defense: 92 - adjusted defense: 7

Japanese assault odds: 94 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Kweiteh !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: preparation(-), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
57 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
1751 casualties reported
Squads: 48 destroyed, 34 disabled
Non Combat: 73 destroyed, 21 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 37 (28 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 2


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
32nd Division

Defending units:
51st Chinese Corps
69th Chinese Corps

Taytay falls and Hong Kong eats some more artillery shells.

=================================================================
Here is the situation in central China:

Changsha is the city in the extreme SW corner of the map. I have 3 divisions driving on it and more that are still in Wuchang. I pulled back from Ichang (NE of the lake) and set up a holding position behind the river line. The 2 land battles this turn were clearing the Kaifeng - Suchow rail line. The next step is to advance on a broad front and clear the Sinyang - Kaifeng rail line. And of course capture Changsha if possible.



Edit: You can see little "dots" on some units in various positions. These indicate direction of movement. So sometimes (not always) you can actually tell which way an enemy unit is moving before it moves.

[Yamato hugger]

Dec 13:

Kuma and company leave the beachhead uncovered to engage 3 DDs approaching from the south. They sink 1 DD and set fires on another for light damage to themselves but they let PTs get into the transports. The first attack by 3 Q boats sinks an AK and heavy fires and damage on 1 PT. The next attack by 4 PTs was intercepted by 5 DDs and 1 PT was sunk. The 3rd attack by 6 boats sank 3 AKs for no damage to themselves. The 4th attack was on the retiring Q boats by the DD force that hit the others and all 3 PTs were sunk.

2 TBs sink an AK off Puerto Princesa.

2 TBs found 2 TKs near Zamboanga and left them both with heavy fires and damage.

16 Zeros sweeping Singapore gets 2 of the 7 Buffs that came up. 2 more sweep later and get 1 more.

4 Bettys attacked a DD in Subic Bay. 2 P-40s intercept and they each get a kill.

More Sally raids on Kuantan. No air losses.

6 Anns escorted by 9 Zeros and 15 Nates raid Changsha. 4 Tigers intercept and all 4 reported damaged. 1 Zero was lost.

6 Lilys escorted by 22 Oscars hit an AK at Medan.

5 Tigers sweep Hankow and do nothing to the 3 Nates that came up.

72 twin engine bombers hit Iba again in 2 raids destroying 4 P-40s on the ground.

Repulse is sighted SE of Manado in heavy rain. Ryujo launches 9 Kates. 4 torpedo hits reported for 1 Kate lost. Repulse reported heavily damaged and on fire.

36 Vals from Hiryu and Soryu with 21 Zeros escorting raid the shore batteries of Wake. 1 Marine fighter comes up, and what comes up must go down. And it did.

Minor air raids in Malaya dont achieve much.

Japanese forces closing on Changsha attack 3 Chinese corps and drive them back into the city at 4:1. 114,000 troops are reported in Changsha in 15 units. I will hold my position here outside town because if I advance in I am in danger of being flanked and surrounded. The additional troops in Wuchang havent left the city yet. Punishment will be ordered.

The first attack at Hong Kong goes in at 1:1 reducing the fort levels to 2.

Advancing forces from Aparri capture Tuguegarao on their way inland. The Phil garrison pulled out 2 days ago.

Davao fell undefended. Allied units appear to be falling back to positions in the middle of the island.

Japanese assault by the 138th inf reg and 12 RGC bde SE of Sinyang hit at 2:1 odds, but failed to drive back the 48th Chinese corps.

Jolo and Busuanga fall unopposed.

81st Chinese corps assaulted the 1st cav bde in the mountains just south of the Russian boarder at 1:2.

13th div divided and attacked the 30th Chinese corps in the gap between Sinyang and Ichang at 9:1 driving it back. The "A" regiment is in pursuit.

[bradfordkay]

"The first attack at Hong Kong goes in at 1:1 reducing the fort levels to 2."

So the Gin Drinker's Line is only considered to be a level 3 fort?

[Grotius]

Was the attack on Wake's shore batteries helpful? I'm usually reluctant to use carrier air in that role, but I know land-based air isn't an option, at least not that early in the war. Is it necessary to do this in AE to prepare the way for invasion?

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"The first attack at Hong Kong goes in at 1:1 reducing the fort levels to 2."

So the Gin Drinker's Line is only considered to be a level 3 fort?

Evedently.

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Was the attack on Wake's shore batteries helpful? I'm usually reluctant to use carrier air in that role, but I know land-based air isn't an option, at least not that early in the war. Is it necessary to do this in AE to prepare the way for invasion?

Wake is a long way from a repair base. Any ships severely damaged will sink. Carriers arent loitering, just pasting it as they pass.

[bradfordkay]

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"The first attack at Hong Kong goes in at 1:1 reducing the fort levels to 2."

So the Gin Drinker's Line is only considered to be a level 3 fort?



Evedently.

Don't worry, I trust that you guys at HFP have a much better idea of what it should be than I do. I haven't read extensively on that particular battle, so I was wondering how extensive that defensive line was.

I knew that it was too long a defensive line for the troops at hand, and that it was broken in the first day of fighting - but had no idea if the works were extensive or rudimentary. The British tendency to use colourful names for their military operations probably leads to a tendency to overestimate the depth of the defensive works.

[Yamato hugger]

Dec 14:

Jintsu, Sendai and 4 DDs sink an AK north of Leyte.

6 DDs find and after 2 engagements sink 2 ASs and an AVD west of Manado. 1 DD has heavy fires and is headed to Davao for repairs.

Kuma and company find the gunboat Tulsa at Cebu. 5 Zeros bomb and strafe her later in the day sinking her.

SS Pickerel fires 4 fish at CVL Ryujo near Morotai and all miss. The Ryujo moved south looking for crippled Repulse and was sailing completely alone. She is breaking off and headed to join up with Zuihos TF.

33rd inf det lands at Atimonan (half way between Naga and Manila).

12 Zeros sweep Malacca and shoot down 5 of the 4 Buffs that come up [:D]

6 Zeros sweep Manila and shoot down all 3 P-40s waiting.

4 Lilys with Oscar escort bomb an AK loading at Medan for 2 hits.

12 Sonias with 25 Nates escorting meet 3 Tigers over Changsha. 3 Nates are lost damaging 3 P-40s.

7 P-40s attack Kuma group at Busuanga (my repair base near Bataan) for no effect. 5 P-35s attack later in the day for no effect. 3 more attack a DD at Legaspi for no effect.

4 Zeros bomb and strafe an AK at Dadjangas hitting with 3 bombs and causing the usual heavy damage and fires.

61 navy bombers raid Iba again hitting a P-40.

3 P-35s attack a patrol boat north of the PI. 1 Zero intercepts but too late to stop them from sinking it.

19 Zeros bomb an AK at Dumanquilas hitting it 14 times.

9 Nells attacked 2 minesweepers at Bataan hitting 1 twice.

3 Sallys lost to AA fire at Kuantan.

18 P-35s attacked CL Sendais force at Legaspi for no effect.

3 Zeros attacked an AK at Zamboanga hitting her twice. Fires and heavy damage reported.

Bloody battle for the allies considering the low odds:
Ground combat at 92,38

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 12650 troops, 104 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 421

Defending force 17541 troops, 135 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 431

Japanese max assault: 710 - adjusted assault: 450

Allied max defense: 429 - adjusted defense: 199

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
325 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 19 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (0 destroyed, 6 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
7419 casualties reported
Squads: 299 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 270 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 20 (24 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 3


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
5th Armored Car Co
26th Division

Defending units:
35th Chinese Corps
83rd Chinese Corps
3rd Prov Chinese Corps
13th Group Army

The 8th Indian bde gets smacked again in central Malaya for a 10:1 from the 56th inf reg driving it back.

And another bloody 5:1-
Ground combat at 88,49

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 3744 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 141

Defending force 5582 troops, 59 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 176

Japanese max assault: 216 - adjusted assault: 76

Allied max defense: 157 - adjusted defense: 15

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
187 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units pursuing 1


Allied ground losses:
2390 casualties reported
Squads: 72 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 98 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 13 (7 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 2

[Yamato hugger]

Dec 15:

Kuma, Natori, and their 4 DDs travel to Batangas to bust up a large concentration of PTs. 2 DDs take torpedo hits and limp away heavily damaged, 3 PTs are sunk. Then the remaining force sinks 3 AKs in 2 follow up battles.

Kongo and company find and sink an AK north of Mindinao.

A sub finds one of my AKs just north of Babeldaob (Peleliu).

14 P-40s strafe the airfield at Tuguegarao in norther Luzon. 3 Zeros intercept no losses to either side.

CL Dauntless and 2 APs try sneaking into Rangoon. 41 Nells and 6 Bettys go to greet them and find 5 Buffs on CAP. Between CAP and AA fire 8 attackers are lost but 4 torpedo hits are reported on the Dauntless. 3 Sallys attacked an AP later with 2 Buffs on CAP. No hits, no losses. And in the afternoon 4 Bettys came in and 5 reported lost to CAP aircraft.

12 Zeros run a sweep over Changsha and meet 3 Tigers. 1 Zero is lost claiming 2 P-40s.

2 separate sweeps of Manila by 11 Zeros total bag 1 P-40.

1 Sally was lost at Kuantan. 1 Buff intercepted.

22 Oscars sweep Malacca in southern Malaya and shoot down the lone Buff that comes up.

Couple of ineffective attacks on the 40th inf div sitting outside Changsha by SB2s and Tigers.

B-17s hit the airstrip at Davao twice for no loss.

9 P-35s attacked a DD off Legaspi for no effect. 7 more attacked in the afternoon for same effect.

11 Bettys raided Kendari hitting the strip 18 times.

3 Bettys raided the strip at Iloilo and put 5 bombs on target.

4 P-35s attack 2 DDs at Busuanga causing no damage. They came back in the afternoon and did the same thing.

9 P-40s strafe the airfield at Naga causing no damage.

6 Bettys attack 2 Dutch CLs at Kendari scoring no hits.

4 Zeros sweep Singapore and shoot down 4 of the 7 defending Buffs.

A Nate and Sonia was lost over Changsha attacking troops. 3 Tigers on CAP.

65th inf bde begins unloading at Cayagan.

Artillery fire at Hong Kong.

26 div attacks a Chinese HQ in the mountains just south of the Russian boarder and get a 41:1 odds. The 5th armored car co is in pursuit.

Chinese artillery attacks 1st cav bde at Paotow.

[Yamato hugger]

THINGS I HAVE LEARNED THUS FAR:

Sweeps seem too powerful. Nearly impossible to defend against.

Unloading lots of Amphibs at a single base is problematic because the more stuff you are trying to unload the slower everything unloads. I have the 5th and 18th unloading at Singora and the 48th and 16th at Aparri (plus various other support units at each) and the longer they are there the longer they are there lol.

Initial assault forces unload quickly, but once a base is actually captured amphib TFs unload very slowly. Would seem for maximum effect on unloading, you want to put as much as you can into that first wave.

Follow-ups are better off in transport TFs rather than amphibs but you need to be mindful of the port size of the base they will be unloading at and make sure the transports and TFs you use for those followup waves will fit in the port.

TF number is important. If your transport TF is a lower number than your escorting surface ships, they will be attacked first. Ships also unload in TF order.

Run-a-way strategy seems to be the way to go in Malaya with ground attack missions on Japanese spearheads to keep them in combat mode. This will slow their advance to a crawl giving you time to pull back and dig in. Would seem likely to use this same strategy in Burma.

Air recon both in the form of "recon" missions and naval search is very important. Things you take for granted in WitP (seeing enemy occupied airfields and ports for example) you wont get in AE without it.

I really really like the new pursuit. Makes a lot more sense than WitP.

Getting a near the action level 3 port and dumping a HQ and naval support base forces in it is critical to ship survival. This ship for example had 22 major (65 "minor") damage when she was hit by a torpedo just before the Davao landing. After 2 days in port, she is patched up enough to go back to Japan for permanent repairs. Without Davao, she wouldnt have made it home.

[asdicus]

Thanks for your aar. Please keep it up - it is much appreciated.

Interesting that you are finding aircraft sweeps too effective. I raised a query about this with the developers as this seems to be an issue on the other aar's as well. Hopefully sweeps might be adjusted a bit before the final release of ae.

Would you be able/willing to post a map with your aar reports ? It would be nice to see the progress of the japanese as the war continues.

[pad152]

TF number is important. If your transport TF is a lower number than your escorting surface ships, they will be attacked first. Ships also unload in TF order.

I understand the TF order for unload but, not attacks, is this a bug? It seems each TF in a hex would have almost an equal chance of being attacked in an air raid. If there are warships in the same spot as transports, the pilots more offen than not would go after the warships.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

THINGS I HAVE LEARNED THUS FAR:

...

TF number is important. If your transport TF is a lower number than your escorting surface ships, they will be attacked first. Ships also unload in TF order.

...

No longer true.

Previously in AE, whenever a TF found itself in a hex with one or more enemy TFs, it ran a set of calculations to determine combat. A threshold was calculated (with a healthy dose of random) and the TFs scanned in TF number order. The first TF that reached the threshold would be engaged in combat. This tended to be the first (lowest) TF when the initial TF was strong.

This has since been changed (based on Yamato Hugger's prodding, if I recall) so that all the TFs in the hex are scanned, randomly shuffled (to keep things interesting) and assigned a value. The highest value will be engaged. The randominity is set to that it is more likely that a surface combat TF in the same hex as a friendly transport TF will engage an arriving enemy combat TF - but there is a chance the enemy might slip by and get to the transports.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: asdicus

Interesting that you are finding aircraft sweeps too effective. I raised a query about this with the developers as this seems to be an issue on the other aar's as well. Hopefully sweeps might be adjusted a bit before the final release of ae.

The so called "Sweep Bonus" is very much alive and well in stock - as it always has been. It is mitigated somewhat in AE, primarily due to the new reinforcing CAP model. But it is still possible to overwhelm cap, especially with multiple strikes in the same phase. So AE is a bit better than stock in this area, but still not perfect.

[Dili]

Run-a-way strategy seems to be the way to go in Malaya with ground attack missions on Japanese spearheads to keep them in combat mode. This will slow their advance to a crawl giving you time to pull back and dig in. Would seem likely to use this same strategy in Burma.

Even a small attack/combat?

Air recon both in the form of "recon" missions and naval search is very important. Things you take for granted in WitP (seeing enemy occupied airfields and ports for example) you wont get in AE without it.

Very good!