Map Question...

[loyalcitizen]

The blue lines look pretty and all, but if the shaded elevation wasn't there as well, I wouldn't be able to tell which way was up.

[James Sterrett]

The blue lines are mildly unsightly but very clarifying (especially combined with the shading).
 
If they were an option I would definitely use them.

[BAL]

FWIW, I think the blue elevation lines are very helpful. 

[nicdain]

I definitely agree that contour lines together with colour shade give a better understanding of terrain morphology. I would surely use such an option if available.

[dogancan]

count me as well, it is really a pain for me to truly visualise the terrain elevation and slope. Elevation lines will be of much help.

[Capitaine]

Ditto on the blue lines.  Much much better appreciation of the elevation.

[06 Maestro]

Although I might use the contour lines occasionally at the start of a scenario (most likely just for a planning stage), I would not use them during the game. It clutters up the map too much.

I would like a more clear distinction between the elevation colors-sometimes the difference is a little too subtle for my eyes. A good terrain analysis is important to a successful battle, but it can be overdone. After a time of familiarizing yourself with a given map, you can tell at a glance if an area is too steep for certain types, or any type of unit.

One of the duties of an intelligence officer (US Army S-2 or G-2) is to prepare a map for his commander.
Part of this duty involves a good terrain analysis. Areas that are not considered as a "likely avenue of approach" is outlined, and sparsly lined out. If you follow this practice, it will be easier to plan your operation and easier to make speedy changes to the plan as the situation develops.

If you have two monitors, you can do all your prep-work on a copied map and use it as a reference during your battle. If you don't want to use a second monitor you can print a map use it under a plastic cover (don't use permanent makers). This might sound like a lot of trouble, but if you try it you just might find it preferable to all those extra lines on the map.

As map reading is a skill that takes at least a little training, and is also an important part of this game system; I think Panther Games should include a brief (maybe one page) map reading primer specific to the scale/codes used in these games. I think Arjuna could bang that out in 5 minutes.

[Arjuna]

Great idea 06 Maestro. You sound just the man for the job! [:)]

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Great idea 06 Maestro. You sound just the man for the job! [:)]

I will have to clear out some cobwebs in the instructional area-can be done though.[:)]
Just for fun-I will do it.

[barbarossa2]

Maestro,

I am sure you don't mean that my map reading skills need improvement.

I agree with many of your statements, but I feel that there are too many areas of the maps in which elevation is difficult or even impossible to read. Even if doing nothing but tracing elevation lines.

As you said, the shades of color are often too close together to read (even in open terrain!).

Of course, the best option would be having an elevation line toggle switch. But if we could have only one option, I think elevation lines would be better IMHO.

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

Maestro,

I am sure you don't mean that my map reading skills need improvement.

Not just you, most all of us could use a refresher course-including me. The basics of map reading can be taught in a couple of hours-but to master it takes a long time with much practical training. The faster you are moving, the more you have to watch the terrain. One little mistake and people can die-or you loss the game.[:)]

ORIGINAL:
Of course, the best option would be having an elevation line toggle switch. But if we could have only one option, I think elevation lines would be better IMHO.

A toggle switch would work well for our purposes. An individual could use contour lines as was needed for their method of play.
The existing maps do work well, but for speedy play the player should have some basic training on map reading/land navigation. It really is possible to tell a glance how difficult an area is most of the time. For others not familiar with these game, there is a dialog (with right click) which gives slope in degrees and elevation. It is a very handy tool in preparing for the game, but if playing against a human, you are better off with good map reading skills.

A military map uses contour lines, but those maps are only an extension of the reality you are in. The Game map is the reality you are in-needs to be prettier IMO.[8D]

[TMO]

But if we could have only one option, I think elevation lines would be better IMHO.

I think this is a very good suggestion, but ONLY as a toggle option - permanent lines add to too much clutter . Don't delay BFTB - incorporate this feature in your next installment (which I'm delighted to see is Normandy!).

Regards

Tim

[barbarossa2]

TMO, I agree with you. My statement that IMHO, the lines would be better IF we only had one option was very carefully worded, using "in my humble opinion" to express the fact that I knew that many, indeed most people, might disagree with that statement.

I do however, feel it needs to be an option which one can toggle.

However, reading the elevation lines in the woods on BFTB will be almost impossible, so I would personally vote to have in this release. Since this was already troublesome in the previous releases.

Anyway...it's all "in my humble opinion".

[06 Maestro]

I have to agree with Barbarossa that the reading of elevations in thickly wooded areas is very difficult-if possible at all. However, there is still a way to deal with the elevation situation by use of the right click on the area in question. If your entire area of operation is in such terrain, this could be a tedious task. It seems that the norm is a small percentage of a map actually falls into this difficult to read category. If there is a possibility that you may pass through those areas then marking such areas on your overlay prior to stating the game would be a good idea.

Speaking of overlay's; some time ago it came up in the CotA forum to have this added to the game. I don't recall if it received a TT or if it was an item on the wish list. It would be a great addition to this system-another first too.

My map reading primer is rather condensed onto two pages. I found I could not explain how to judge the heavy woods areas "at a glance". The right click is required. So, Herr Barbarossa, I misspoke on that point.

[Anonymous]

If this happens, will it effect the delay for the game.

If it does, I have many suggestions that I would like to hev included too.

[barbarossa2]

I would suggest this doesn't have to happen immediately. But IMHO should happen with one of the patches for the BFTB.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the reply, I will wait then.

[Deathtreader]

Hi all,

Just wondering.............wouldn't greater contrast in colours (or brighter) for the differing elevations have pretty much the same effect?? There was a similar concern with the elevations in forested terrain with HTTR. As I recall, someone put out a graphics mod that had more contrast and intense colouration that went a long ways to addressing this. My 2 bits worth.........[:)]

Rob.

[scsfan]

good idea, it certainly made reading the map much easier!

[Thomas_Kenobi]

I want to offer my vote for toggle-able elevation lines. Barbarossa2 I think your maps demonstrate this perfectly. Looking at them, I was able to deduce tactically important locations, in a way I could not before. I especially liked the thicker line every 3 or 5.