Disciplinary Action relating to events on the Thread

[Erik Rutins]

That's enough of that folks, this is not an invitation to air old grievances. Festivus happened two months ago...

[mdiehl]

yes while t has done stuff that gets him banned. he does not stalk people.

I have to disagree. I think the record is pretty clear. But 'nuff said. I'd rather argue a historical point than carry on about this.

[stuman]

Gotta love a mod who knows about Festivus. I do mean that in a very manly way of course.

[AirGriff]

FWIW, I have been playing pbem and intereacting with Japan for going on 2 years now, and though I don't always agree with his politics I do believe he is a good, considerate, respectful person and a thoroughly dedicated and devoted WitP player. He doesn't see things the way some of us do, and challenges conventional thinking. I'm sure there are many reasons for this, but it obviously got him into some issues here. Anyway, I just wanted to speak up for him and say he's good people.

[CV Zuikaku]

Maybe folks here just have too much time, so they fight each other.
Things woul'd ,ofcourse, be different if they coul'd play the AE.
But, as we all know, AE don't exist. [:D]
Seems to me that War room is a most "dangerous" place here. Haven't seen such a tense situations in any other subforums... and on more than one occasion I have found myself dragged into the fights (over politics) arround here. Which is something I am not proud of.
While on other subforums I can agree or disagree on someone's oppinion, and here and there can be tempted to respond in uncontrolled way (why does mdiehl comes into my mind [;)]) ...these are still a good spirited situations where you can actually learn something new.... so, i like hangin' arround this forum... becouse here I learned a lots of thing here...
So, I can be sometimes annoyed by one-sided views of some forum members, but I woul'd certainly not feel good if any of them had to go- because they are all part of family. I hope that all these tensions will fade away when the AE gets released (in a few years).
ofcourse, AE does not exist [:'(]

[thegreatwent]

I think it was Kissinger who, regarding academia, stated "The reason the politics are so brutal is that the stakes are so small".

[Feltan]

Wow. Too much drama.

It's November '42, and I have some carriers to sink -- if I didn't divert to that, I'd be having a conversation like this with my wife about the kids!

Regards,
Feltan

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

I think it was Kissinger who, regarding academia, stated "The reason the politics are so brutal is that the stakes are so small".

i think that quote is far older than even Mr. Kissinger... [:D]

[Feinder]

Everybody should get banned once.  It's like a club.  There's a secret hand-shake and everything. 
 
If anything, it's like a forced intervention so you figure out that it's just an internet forum and the other bone-head isn't worth wasting your blood-pressure on.  The little green button is your friend.
 
So, shall we return to our usual banter on Zero-bonus, Allied-4Es, uber-CAP, and bombardment-nukes...?
 
-F-

[jwilkerson]

I don't really think Erik meant to open a "debate" on this topic - but to restate what I said earlier on 'THE THREAD" about the events - and to address "nemo's issue" in part - I not only support the action - but I recommended it - and as has been acknowledged we do not to this often - we can safely say "free speech" is the default around here.

If I find three people "fighting" - on the internet or otherwise - I believe that all should be punished - I do not want to debate "who started it" - all are guilty in my book. Some of you may disagree - that is fine by me - but I wanted to explain my recommendation - and why we punished all three.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

I don't really think Erik meant to open a "debate" on this topic - but to restate what I said earlier on 'THE THREAD" about the events - and to address "nemo's issue" in part - I not only support the action - but I recommended it - and as has been acknowledged we do not to this often - we can safely say "free speech" is the default around here.

If I find three people "fighting" - on the internet or otherwise - I believe that all should be punished - I do not want to debate "who started it" - all are guilty in my book. Some of you may disagree - that is fine by me - but I wanted to explain my recommendation - and why we punished all three.

I absolutely agree. When it turns personal, its time for a 'cool down' period.

I've been a forum moderator before myself. To all those that have never done it, trust me it is not fun when you have to discipline people, I know I personally took no satisfaction from it. But it must be done for the benefit of the other forum users.

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

I absolutely agree. When it turns personal, its time for a 'cool down' period.

I've been a forum moderator before myself. To all those that have never done it, trust me it is not fun when you have to discipline people, I know I personally took no satisfaction from it. But it must be done for the benefit of the other forum users.

Its not your fault you are there to moderate for a reason, if someone can't understand his actions perhaps he shouldn't be commenting on a forum to begin with. If you can't view rationality with reason then you surely should not be on a forum expressing your views. I have ran BBS's back in the early 90s so I have seen just about every abuse there is on a forum and its terrible to think such bright people with knowledge and do such stupid things. However I can't say I haven't been banned on forums before, think of me as the Henry Earl of Forums, he been arrested 1000 times I have been muted 1000 times:)

[goodboyladdie]

ORIGINAL: Mac67

@Nemo

Speaking as someone who is well known to be not on Terminus's Xmas card list, I have to say in all fairness that he has been post-stalked by Japan for a while now.

If there is any collateral damage here it is Dixie. His uncharacteristic outburst was prompted by Japan's continual harassment within the Thread. I understand that use of bad language here even when hidden behind *'s is against the rules, but I do see those rules being broken all over this forum without any action being taken. Given Dixie's good character and the decent way he has always conducted himself here in the past, I feel that some leniency could have been shown given the circumstances, rather than him being made an example of.

[&o][&o] Mac, Old Bean, you are spot on and very fair.

ps - Belly were better than Throwing Muses [:'(]

[Mac67]

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie
ps - Belly were better than Throwing Muses [:'(]

[X(]

Ban him!!!!! [:'(][:D]

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Erik,

I have a question as someone who isn't part of The Thread at all and has no issue with what was done by you there ( In fact I think Terminus was running wild for a long time prior to this ).

My question is prompted by the banning of Japan for what I think is best described as "incitement"... Basically I've been on forums before where when someone would be spoiling for a fight the person who they chose to fight with ( who might be ardently defending an unpopular view ) would also end up banned for "incitement".

To be fair the mods would usually ban the "inciter" when this person was saying something they didn't agree with whereas "incitement" would be allowed if it was something they agreed with. In that case it would be viewed as "sharing an opinion".


Anyways, I don't see this playing of favourites or supporting of particular partisan viewpoints here BUT it ALWAYS makes me uneasy when someone is banned for "incitement" or "violating the spirit" of the rules as it seems a bit of a slippery slope.

I'm not trying to continue any fight or spark anything up again and I think while many people would disagree with quite a few of my views  most would agree that I am always in favour of letting people's opinions be expressed no matter how I disagree with them or their views BUT I was wondering if you could outline how you might decide when disagreeing fervently goes over the line to incitement.

E.g I have green buttoned one person on this forum and that's Terminus as I find most of his responses to anything I direct at him to be needlessly rude and inflammatory BUT it strikes me that by using a lax interpretation of "incitement" I ( and others ) could find myself/ourselves being banned for doing nothing more than refusing to be cowed into agreement by the loudest voice in the room ( not necessarily Terminus ... I simply mention his name to explain why I immediately thought "uhoh" when I saw that Japan was banned in addition when it was Terminus who actually violated the letter of the rules ).

FWIW I can see that going into the Thread and not green-buttoning him wasn't exactly the smartest thing to do BUT we don't jail a woman who gets raped for wearing a short skirt or accepting a spiked drink from a stranger and we don't jail a man who wears the opposing team's jersey into the Home Team's stand during a game when he gets the living you know what kicked out of him. One can argue about the judgement in both of those cases but it is one thing to be silly and exhibit poor judgement and its another thing to get the same punishment as the person who assaulted you.

I'm not seeking to incite a major fight here but I do think that clarifying the dividing line between disagreement and poor judgement ( which won't get you banned ) and incitement ( which rightly will get you banned ) would be beneficial to the community.

I don´t want to start a war here and I don´t want to offend Mr. Terminus, that we seem to have problems with each other seems to be nothing unusual anymore but I can only agree with Nemo on the matter. You may call Japan´s postings trolling or whatever but in all honesty, what Mr. Spam has brought up for years is beyond everything any of those "short time" forum members did at any time. And I can´t remember anyone so far that has been banned as often as T was in the last years. The result between the bans seems to be that he has become a semi official Matrix member. [:o]

This is the best forum I know of but there has been coming constant rudeness, spam, offenses etc. mostly only from one corner...

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

If post-stalking and trolling aren't against the forum rules they certainly should be.

They are, but that hasn't led anyone to ban you or Terminus before:

In post 16069 of The Thread, Mynok wrote:
And well deserved. He's either an idiot or an mdiehl clone.

In post 16071 of The Thread, Terminus wrote:
Or an idiotic mdiehl clone... Completely identical to the original...

In post 16072 of The Thread, Mynok wrote:
Seems strangely redundant.....

In post # 9292 of The Thread, Terminus wrote:
Mdiehl sent me a PM, telling me to tell you: "Thank you for last night, Darling. It was wonderful..."

My point being that Mynok and Terminus are princpal and habitual offenders. My other point is, Erik, that you have covered for Terminus for a LONG LONG TIME. I don't see why institutional memory has to be erased merely because you sent Terminus to the showers for a week.

now if those quotes are correct (and I assume they are correct) then this clearly shows enough that people should get banned. And those posts seem to be just common for some people, while some seems to be one in my case. [8|]

Thank god I´ve never looked into the thread for the the first 690 pages... [8|]

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

the guy has been deliberatly trolling the thread and his avatar is a troll. plus he has done the same things over and over.

Possibly. But he's not doing anything more excessive than has been Terminus' habit for a long time.

you need to get a life.

[8|]

agreed! and Japan has been around for not even 10% of the time Terminus has been and I have yet to see Japan being as rude as he is / was. The fact that after a week people are treated like brand new forum members definetely makes it easy for him. The other fact that he found "official" friends is the other reason he can do whatever he wants here on the forum. Every other one would have been permanently banned or whatever...

I just don´t even want to remember about the posts where he called that girl that joined the forum a homosexual... [8|]

[bobogoboom]

Can we lock this thread?

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

Can we lock this thread?

shouldn´t the three people that got banned have a chance to contribute? If it´s possible to do it in a normal way without "idiot", "*****" "%("=%/" being thrown back and forth I guess it should be allowed to discuss things (even if it´s about the fact that you don´t like someone for whatever reason).

[goodboyladdie]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

If post-stalking and trolling aren't against the forum rules they certainly should be.

They are, but that hasn't led anyone to ban you or Terminus before:

In post 16069 of The Thread, Mynok wrote:
And well deserved. He's either an idiot or an mdiehl clone.

In post 16071 of The Thread, Terminus wrote:
Or an idiotic mdiehl clone... Completely identical to the original...

In post 16072 of The Thread, Mynok wrote:
Seems strangely redundant.....

In post # 9292 of The Thread, Terminus wrote:
Mdiehl sent me a PM, telling me to tell you: "Thank you for last night, Darling. It was wonderful..."

My point being that Mynok and Terminus are princpal and habitual offenders. My other point is, Erik, that you have covered for Terminus for a LONG LONG TIME. I don't see why institutional memory has to be erased merely because you sent Terminus to the showers for a week.

now if those quotes are correct (and I assume they are correct) then this clearly shows enough that people should get banned. And those posts seem to be just common for some people, while some seems to be one in my case. [8|]

Thank god I´ve never looked into the thread for the the first 690 pages... [8|]

I tend to keep out of the angry side of things and think that everyone is entitled to play in this sandpit. I am a bit bothered that mdiehl is actually "stalking" The Thread!!! collecting evidence to support whatever case he thinks he has. If friends can't blow off some momentary steam when amongst friends then what is the world coming to? We all have grumpy mates and we all have certain things that get up our noses. Why is it so hard to make allowances and try not to do the things that we know upset our forum brethren? God bless Matrix for providing a green button. I rarely (only once) use it, but it's reassuring to know that if I need to avoid something for the sake of my ulcers, I can...