Advice sought

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Yamato hugger
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RE: Advice sought

Post by Yamato hugger »

ORIGINAL: Major Ball

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Looks like the bulk of the Japanese "mobile" forces. You can do what you want everywhere else. I would suggest an invasion of Java.

With whose army?

Oh, you have the 2nd Marine Div somewhere, and the 24th and the 25th divs, probably the Americal. And probably a truckload of regiments from North Pac and the west coast.
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marky
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RE: Advice sought

Post by marky »

ORIGINAL: Major Ball

Jap Invasion

Image

i would also suggest putting multiple subs in each hex leading from chandpur and to form a scouting line in case he trys to route them around your subs

and as for the "Tokyo Submarine Express" concentrate those bombers on ASW and watch em head for Davy Jones Locker [:D]
Major Ball
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RE: Advice sought

Post by Major Ball »

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I'm wondering if all those subs and light forces you are spotting heading for Chandapur aren't supply, but evacuation TF's.  He's already lost this assault; no way can he bring enough supply in by sub and light warship to keep so many men able to fight, and against your defending force anything less will be insufficient.  He was probably hoping Chandapur wasn't heavily defended and his massive assault would swamp the defenders, but now there's no way he can supply them without big AK/AP TF's so they're trapped on the beach, a logisticians' nightmare.

If it were me I'd be trying to get men OUT of Chandapur, not resupply the ones already there.  He's risking a Stalingrad-sized defeat, with a Guadalcanal-sized loss in shipping thrown in on top of it.  In fact, he's probably already there in both situations.

Well it will take a hell of a lot of submarines to evacutae 200000 men!!

I am really waiting for the KB to show itself as I have not seen any elements of it for about 3 weeks. A small mini KB was supporting the invasion of Chandpur but a couple of torpedo hits into a CV and a CVL forced its withdrawal. I am wondering why the main KB was not there in support. I am relunctant to committ my carrier forces to battle unless I know where his are at this stage.

Given he has 45 units stuck on the beaches the only way he can successfully remove them is by gaining air Superioty and this can only be done with some carrier air forces so far from land based fighter support.

I think the general assessment from all here is to keep the Japs stuck on the beaches. Remove some forces from Chandpur to strengthen areas against another invasion. If the Japs want to resupply or evacuate it may cost them more ships then before. I have been intercepting quite a few Emilys the last few turns transporting to Chandpur.

Ambassador
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RE: Advice sought

Post by Ambassador »

Want to know where KB is ?  Here's a hint : what happens when a ship is constantly on the move for four months, and sometimes at full speed ?[;)]
Major Ball
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RE: Advice sought

Post by Major Ball »

Japanese player realising the trouble he is in at Chandpur launches 2nd invasion on Akyab with a further 22 units, various NLF, division and various bits and peices(around 800 assault). The Akagi, Shokaku & Zuikalu have been sited south of Akyab. Japs intend to use base to provide LB fighter cover to Chandpur I beleive:


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John Lansford
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RE: Advice sought

Post by John Lansford »

By taking Akyab he also removes a land route supply roadblock, if he can advance those troops to break the cordon you've set up around the Chandapur force.  If he can open up a land supply route, they'll get small amounts of supply each turn without him risking planes/ships, plus they can evacuate overland instead of via sea.
 
The subs, if they're evacuating, don't have to take all 200000 men; they've just got to get enough of each LCU to allow them to reconstitute the unit if he loses the assault force due to lack of supply. 
erstad
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RE: Advice sought

Post by erstad »

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

By taking Akyab he also removes a land route supply roadblock, if he can advance those troops to break the cordon you've set up around the Chandapur force.  If he can open up a land supply route, they'll get small amounts of supply each turn without him risking planes/ships, plus they can evacuate overland instead of via sea.

It'll take months to clear a supply route from Akyab to Chandpur, and even if it were cleared supply at the end of a bunch of jungle/trail hexes won't be a lot. So I wouldn't be too worried about that. Plus you'll see that coming with lots of time to spare so you can always react later if that's his plan. If he uses that as an overland retreat route, it will take even longer for the chandpur troops to get to akyab. Who cares if they get there and it's early 43? By then trying to run transports into Akyab would be as bad as trying to run transports to Chandpur today. I'd just keep the pressure up in Chandpur (either rest or bombard, wouldn't suggest assault as it will tend to disable your AV) and put as much air in India as you can to grind him down. If he is really going to LRCAP chandpur from akyab, that's only good - you can actually use all those hurricanes/spits that don't seem particularly useful otherwise :-) and attrit his zeros and pilots (4 hexes from base a lot of kills will be pilot losses)

Oh, and I assume you are rebuilding the fort levels in Chandpur, right?

Seems to me like dumping another 1.5 divisions worth into Akyab is making a bad situation worse. All you need to do is hold Chandpur at all costs... (Your units are prepped for there, and SE asia is prepped and in range, right?)

Do you have a house rule against non-base-hex invasions? I can think of a thing or two I might try in desperation if I were him.
Major Ball
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RE: Advice sought

Post by Major Ball »

ORIGINAL: erstad
ORIGINAL: John Lansford

By taking Akyab he also removes a land route supply roadblock, if he can advance those troops to break the cordon you've set up around the Chandapur force.  If he can open up a land supply route, they'll get small amounts of supply each turn without him risking planes/ships, plus they can evacuate overland instead of via sea.

It'll take months to clear a supply route from Akyab to Chandpur, and even if it were cleared supply at the end of a bunch of jungle/trail hexes won't be a lot. So I wouldn't be too worried about that. Plus you'll see that coming with lots of time to spare so you can always react later if that's his plan. If he uses that as an overland retreat route, it will take even longer for the chandpur troops to get to akyab. Who cares if they get there and it's early 43? By then trying to run transports into Akyab would be as bad as trying to run transports to Chandpur today. I'd just keep the pressure up in Chandpur (either rest or bombard, wouldn't suggest assault as it will tend to disable your AV) and put as much air in India as you can to grind him down. If he is really going to LRCAP chandpur from akyab, that's only good - you can actually use all those hurricanes/spits that don't seem particularly useful otherwise :-) and attrit his zeros and pilots (4 hexes from base a lot of kills will be pilot losses)

Oh, and I assume you are rebuilding the fort levels in Chandpur, right?

Seems to me like dumping another 1.5 divisions worth into Akyab is making a bad situation worse. All you need to do is hold Chandpur at all costs... (Your units are prepped for there, and SE asia is prepped and in range, right?)

Do you have a house rule against non-base-hex invasions? I can think of a thing or two I might try in desperation if I were him.

Chandpur forts are back up to level 6 with over 550 Engineers there!! They were at Zero but the base was saved when Thunderstorms appeared.

Akyab doesnt seem a big problem other than his Land Based fighters being closer and probably prevents the Naval bomabrdment I have been doing.

With 45 units at Chandpur and another 22 at Akyab and also 2 VM divisions moving up the road 1 hex from Akyab how much more force can the Japs collect in the region!!! There is also a couple of divisions defending the road into Rangoon.

We have a house rule against non base invasions and para drops.

Would you fly in some more troops from China?
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gladiatt
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RE: Advice sought

Post by gladiatt »

on the contrary, why not trying an offensive in CHINA ? With 60 units sticked in india/burma, hiw much come from china??? May be you can make him panic with a drive toward Hanoi or another china city. Remenber: he have to keep garrison in chinese city, and he can't gather what he wants...and there no threat of the KB in china...

Just my thought (not sure it's the best)
John Lansford
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RE: Advice sought

Post by John Lansford »

Jeez that's a lot of the Japanese player's ground forces in that theater.  ISTM that he's reinforcing failure, though.  You've got the rail lines, the internal communication lines, and the base (Chandapur), while he will at best have to rely on an overland supply route that is really, really long, running through Akyab.  Given the difficulty I've had in retaking Akyab in 1944 using the overland route, by the time any more troops get to Chandapur from Akyab all they'll accomplish is to serve as an additional drain on too few supplies.
 
Your biggest concern needs to be sea transport reaching those units on the beach.  The airbase at Akyab will provide LRCAP and ASW patrols for any approaching TF's, as well as anti-shipping forces vs any of your bombardment/surface warfare TF's.  If you've got the bombers to spare you need to make sure that airbase at Akyab stays as damaged as possible, or he may try and run a megasized supply TF in to feed/rearm those men trying to take Chandapur.
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AW1Steve
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RE: Advice sought

Post by AW1Steve »

Does he have a land supply line? From the map on the screenie, it looks like the supply line has to pass through Dacca, that you own.[&:]
Major Ball
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RE: Advice sought

Post by Major Ball »

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

on the contrary, why not trying an offensive in CHINA ? With 60 units sticked in india/burma, hiw much come from china??? May be you can make him panic with a drive toward Hanoi or another china city. Remenber: he have to keep garrison in chinese city, and he can't gather what he wants...and there no threat of the KB in china...

Just my thought (not sure it's the best)

All major bases in CHina conencted to rail lines have been taken. Chinese troops havnt got enough rice or guns to go on the offensive.
Major Ball
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RE: Advice sought

Post by Major Ball »

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Does he have a land supply line? From the map on the screenie, it looks like the supply line has to pass through Dacca, that you own.[&:]

No overland supply route..just to make sure moved troops to totally surround them.
Major Ball
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RE: Advice sought

Post by Major Ball »

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Jeez that's a lot of the Japanese player's ground forces in that theater.  ISTM that he's reinforcing failure, though.  You've got the rail lines, the internal communication lines, and the base (Chandapur), while he will at best have to rely on an overland supply route that is really, really long, running through Akyab.  Given the difficulty I've had in retaking Akyab in 1944 using the overland route, by the time any more troops get to Chandapur from Akyab all they'll accomplish is to serve as an additional drain on too few supplies.

Your biggest concern needs to be sea transport reaching those units on the beach.  The airbase at Akyab will provide LRCAP and ASW patrols for any approaching TF's, as well as anti-shipping forces vs any of your bombardment/surface warfare TF's.  If you've got the bombers to spare you need to make sure that airbase at Akyab stays as damaged as possible, or he may try and run a megasized supply TF in to feed/rearm those men trying to take Chandapur.

Agree here however the brits do not have any long range fighter that is any good at this stage to provide aircover vs fighters at Akyab. I did try and bomb the airfield while it was damaged but he must have had LR Cap from his carriers did some damage. I think its best to wait and try attack his ships in Chandpur itself if they attempt to resupply. I think there is more chance of him withdrawing as level 7 forts now with 3000 assault strength will never fall. Or he could wait 3 months for units to march up the road!!
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heenanc
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RE: Advice sought

Post by heenanc »

I must say this is a very interesting situation and I reckon it would be good if this thread became a AAR at least until the battle is resolved. Your opponent has jumped in with both feet and at the moment I think you are favourite to win the battle but with a sneaky move the odds could change quickly.

(edit)
Not in the sense that you can't discuss moves just in the sense that I would be good if you kept us informed on a as thing progress....
yo yo yo
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heenanc
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RE: Advice sought

Post by heenanc »

ORIGINAL: heenanc

I must say this is a very interesting situation and I reckon it would be good if this thread became a AAR at least until the battle is resolved. Your opponent has jumped in with both feet and at the moment I think you are favourite to win the battle but with a sneaky move the odds could change quickly.

(edit)
Not in the sense that you can't discuss moves just in the sense that I would be good if you kept us informed as thing progress....
yo yo yo
Major Ball
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RE: Advice sought

Post by Major Ball »

If a moderator can move this to the AAR thread I can keep it updated. This is my 2nd only game in PBEM format and have not played much in SP except the very old version many years ago. I am usure of exactly what the Japs are capable of hence the reason for asking for advice!!
Major Ball
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RE: Advice sought

Post by Major Ball »

Japs move large Naval assets North towards Chandpur. Transports take a pounding with mines and planes in Chandpur itself. Carriers and escort ships stay 1 hex away. Mining operations proved effective at Chandpur. Also Jpa units reduces from 45 to 38 so he might be evacuating:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/17/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Akyab , at 30,29


Allied aircraft
Beaufighter VIF x 7


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Beaufighter VIF bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 70 encounters mine field at Chandpur (30,25)

Japanese Ships
AK Mayachi Maru, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Tamahoko Maru, Mine hits 1, on fire
AK Akasisan Maru, Mine hits 1
AK Suez Maru, Mine hits 1, on fire
AK Renzan Maru, Mine hits 1, on fire
AK Akashi Maru, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 71 encounters mine field at Chandpur (30,25)

Japanese Ships
AP Yoshino Maru, Mine hits 1
AP Tama Maru, Mine hits 1
AP Miyako Maru, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Mexico Maru, Mine hits 1
AP Iburi Maru, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chandpur , at 30,25

Japanese aircraft
H8K Emily x 1

Allied aircraft
Fulmar x 46
Mohawk IV x 19
Buffalo I x 14
Hurricane II x 29
Spitfire Vb x 29
P-39D Airacobra x 18
P-40E Warhawk x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
H8K Emily: 1 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 1st Chinese Temp. Division, at 42,36

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 10

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x Ki-27 Nate bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 44th Chinese Corps, at 47,38

Japanese aircraft
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1

No Japanese losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 55th Chinese Corps, at 45,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24
Ki-27 Nate x 52

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
11 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-27 Nate bombing at 2000 feet
32 x Ki-27 Nate bombing at 2000 feet
24 x A6M2 Zero bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 74th Chinese Corps, at 45,29

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 32
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
32 x Ki-27 Nate bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Makassar Garrison Battalion, at 31,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 21

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Gull Force Battalion, at 55,94

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 22
C5M Babs x 1

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
29 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 1st DAF Base Force, at 33,70

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 21

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chandpur , at 30,25

Japanese aircraft
H8K Emily x 1

Allied aircraft
Fulmar x 38
Mohawk IV x 10
Buffalo I x 9
Hurricane II x 21
Spitfire Vb x 22
P-39D Airacobra x 15
P-40E Warhawk x 31

Japanese aircraft losses
H8K Emily: 1 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chandpur , at 30,25

Japanese aircraft
H8K Emily x 1

Allied aircraft
Fulmar x 38
Mohawk IV x 10
Buffalo I x 9
Hurricane II x 21
Spitfire Vb x 22
P-39D Airacobra x 15
P-40E Warhawk x 31

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 48th Division, at 30,25

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 89

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 1

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Chandpur at 30,25

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 89

Allied aircraft
Beaufort V-IX x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V-IX: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Chandpur at 30,25

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 89

Allied aircraft
Fulmar x 22
Buffalo I x 7
Spitfire Vb x 3
Beaufort V-IX x 3
P-39D Airacobra x 4
P-40E Warhawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 7 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Fulmar: 22 destroyed
Buffalo I: 7 destroyed
Spitfire Vb: 3 destroyed
Beaufort V-IX: 2 destroyed
P-39D Airacobra: 4 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed

Japanese Ships
AP Otori Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Beaufort V-IX launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Chandpur at 30,25

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40

Allied aircraft
Swordfish x 2
Blenheim IV x 3
Beaufort I x 10
Beaufort V-IX x 6
B-17E Fortress x 22
LB-30 Liberator x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 9 destroyed, 22 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Swordfish: 2 destroyed
Blenheim IV: 3 destroyed
Beaufort I: 6 destroyed
Beaufort V-IX: 3 destroyed
B-17E Fortress: 11 damaged
LB-30 Liberator: 4 destroyed, 18 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Unkai Maru #6, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Hokumyo Maru, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
AP Otori Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AP Nihonkai Maru
AP Keisho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Hokusho Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Beaufort V-IX launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
2 x Beaufort I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x Beaufort I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Chandpur at 30,25

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 38

Allied aircraft
Swordfish x 16
Buffalo I x 16
A-20B Boston x 9
B-17E Fortress x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed, 15 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Swordfish: 9 destroyed
Buffalo I: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
A-20B Boston: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 5 destroyed, 14 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Hinko Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Tsunushima Maru
AP Maya Maru
AP Hiyoshi Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Sanko Maru
AP Daitei Maru
AP Hokusho Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Otori Maru, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x A-20B Boston bombing at 5000 feet
7 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Swordfish launching torpedoes at 200 feet
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
3 x A-20B Boston bombing at 5000 feet
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
4 x Swordfish launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Chandpur at 30,25

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 77

Allied aircraft
Beaufort V-IX x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V-IX: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Chandpur at 30,25

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 77

Allied aircraft
Beaufort V-IX x 10
P-40E Warhawk x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 18 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V-IX: 2 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 11 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Mexico Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
AP Iburi Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Beaufort V-IX launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x Beaufort V-IX launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 30,26

Japanese Ships
DD Shikinami
DD Murakumo
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Usugumo
DD Akatsuki
DD Isokaze
DD Yukikaze
DD Natsushio
DD Makigumo
CA Haguro
CV Akagi

Allied Ships
SS KXI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 30,26

Japanese Ships
DD Hasu
DD Shikinami
DD Murakumo

Allied Ships
SS KXI, hits 4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 30,26

Japanese Ships
DD Shikinami
DD Murakumo
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Usugumo
DD Akatsuki
DD Isokaze
DD Yukikaze
DD Natsushio
DD Makigumo
CL Kitakami

Allied Ships
SS KXI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 55,41

Japanese Ships
DD Uzuki
DD Kisaragi
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsuharu

Allied Ships
SS Drum


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 45,30

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 85571 troops, 393 guns, 74 vehicles, Assault Value = 3192

Defending force 15890 troops, 198 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 329

Allied max assault: 2277 - adjusted assault: 1719

Japanese max defense: 319 - adjusted defense: 225

Allied assault odds: 7 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
204 casualties reported
Guns lost 13

Allied ground losses:
534 casualties reported
Guns lost 23
Vehicles lost 8


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chandpur

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 106136 troops, 1111 guns, 4 vehicles, Assault Value = 2491

Defending force 197562 troops, 915 guns, 427 vehicles, Assault Value = 3798


Japanese ground losses:
192 casualties reported



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John Lansford
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RE: Advice sought

Post by John Lansford »

That's what I figured; your opponent's cutting his losses and pulling out, after realizing there's no way he could continue adequately supplying such a huge ground force.  He had hoped to take Chandapur in the first few attacks and secure the base as a logistics center; when that didn't happen, he ended up trapped.

Running a TF of light surface forces (DD's, a CL if you've got them) into Chandapur right now with a withdrawal order on (so they can get away from the carrier strike next day) would bag a large number of merchant ships.
Ambassador
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RE: Advice sought

Post by Ambassador »

Yeah, 38 Zeroes downed.  Is that KB's daitais ?  It would be great.  Anyway, your opponent just lost a lot of his pilots there.[:)]
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