Into the Breach

[Ike99]

From 8-9 to 9-14 My VP spread has moved from +500 to +1500 VPs. I have attacked Finchaven and Russell Island with additional IJA troop losses. Ikesan may be correct that my Bombing runs are not producing VPs, only suppressing the IJA. As I respect Ike and his forum leadership I have deferred to him when posting any Intell charts, which his custom is to publish once a month. Because this bombing for VPs may be an issue I could start pubilshing the intel list daily along w/ the combat report so as to establish a history for research as to the real effect of the bombing.

I don´t think so.

I have 600 points for destroying Allied ground units and have not bombed you much at all.

You have 1,100 points for killing Japanese ground units and I´ve been bombed continuously for 7 months. [:D][:D]

A 500 point difference (less than 2-1) and this includes you destroying 3 entire garrisons by ground combat.

So how much points for Japanese killed by bombing? I don´t think very many. A 500 point difference with almost 30,000 points between us is very little.

[Kingfisher]

ORIGINAL: Ike99
The Allies couldn´t sit back and bomb an area to destroy all the Japanese. If they could have, they would have, but they had to go in and clear these people on the ground.

Really? How big was the invasion force that assaulted the Shortlands? Rabaul? Truk?

[Ike99]

Really? How big was the invasion force that assaulted the Shortlands? Rabaul? Truk?

Yes really. Were the Japanese all killed at Shortlands, Rabaul, Truk by bombing?

Answer-No

Were there still thousands of Japanese at these locations?

Answer-Yes

Conclusion-World War 2 bombing made very little difference to ground force numbers.

[Kingfisher]

ORIGINAL: Ike99
Conclusion-World War 2 bombing made very little difference to ground force numbers.

According to you it is having very little difference in your game as well:

ORIGINAL: Ike99
So how much points for Japanese killed by bombing? I don´t think very many. A 500 point difference with almost 30,000 points between us is very little.

So, what again is the problem with invading where the enemy isn't and establishing bases to isolate him? It seemed to have worked wonders at Vella la Vella, Bougainville and New Guinea.

[xj900uk]

World War 2 bombing made very little difference to ground force numbers

That's not entirely true, Ike. Whilst it is true WWII bombing, whether tactical or strategic, was over-rated & not the world-beater Douhet & his disciples thought it would be, it could still be devestating if not defended against properly.
For example, on the opening day of the war (Sept 1st) German stuka's caught & virtuallyd estroyed a crack polish infantry division at a railway station (can't remember the name of the place), those that survived were completely demoralised & unable to fight - certainly aided to the already one-sided campaign and did a lot for the stuka's world-beating myth of invicibility.
After the war, during his debriefing, SS panzerfuher 'sepp' Dietrich (who did so much damage during the battle of the Bulge) was asked what he thought, from the German point of view, contributed so much to the German's defeat in teh battles of France/Germany in '44/'45 - he unhesitatingly replied air superiority, particularly tactical fighter-bombers (often rocket-armed, like the Typhoon) which made moving any kind of tank or AFV by day virtually impossible. I must admit, during the Battle of the Falaise pocket (July '44), allied fighter-bombers certainly decimated the German panzer units that were trying to flee the trap.

So the answer is, actually tactical bombing can affect an enemies numbers, effectiveness or battle-worthiness, but only if used properly and carefully. Strategic bombing is more for destroying an enemies infrastructure, backup, logistics, admin, and, as Bomber Harris would tactfully put it, his industrial capacity

[Ike99]

That's not entirely true, Ike. Whilst it is true WWII bombing, whether tactical or strategic, was over-rated & not the world-beater Douhet & his disciples thought it would be, it could still be devestating if not defended against properly.

Yes, you´re correct. I´ve overstated my position there. Infantry in the open under artillery or Bombing can, will and did suffer very heavy casualties.

In build up areas (trenches, bunkers, pillboxes) where they become hard targets the effect is greatly reduced.

[tocaff]

What everybody seems to be missing here is that strategic and or tactical bombing to interdict supplies can be a huge problem as troops without beans & bullets are virtually worthless.  Bombing doesn't have to kill the troops at the target, suppression renders them much weaker for combat and they won't move so well.

Ike can say whatever he wants about BR's method of playing this game, but it mostly boils down to his usual attempts at head games.  Sitting back and allowing your opponent to do his level best to beat you might win in the end, but it's boring as hell.  So next time Ike has an Allied opponent spending 1942 sitting back and building his strength remember Ike sitting back in his bunkers in 1943.  If a tactic works for somebody they don't deserve to be ridiculed for doing it.  Don't like the Allied bombing offensive?  Shoot 'em down, if you can.  We all know that Allied LBA can turn the map into an IJN deathtrap if the Allies hold PM, Lae, Lunga and few few other points of interest.

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: tocaff
Ike can say whatever he wants about BR's method of playing this game, but it mostly boils down to his usual attempts at head games. 

I must remind everyone to be a good sport and refrain from any negative points of view.
I do not feel effected by IKESANs headgames and have enjoyed the banter. . Ike is a dangerous and gifted player and I consider it high honor to have survived to this part of our game. Remember that I have not sank any of his BBs or CVs. On the last move he was scouting Nouma. Now I wish to review a few statements earlier in our AAR.

Bigred has promised to humble me beyond question. To pulverize the Japanese and make me cry ¨I GIVE UP!!¨ To place his dirty bare foot on the neck of a prostrate Ike99 laying in horse dung in an unquestionable display of Allied dominance over the Japanese.

I say...¨Once more men, into the breach!!¨

Yes, somewhere, on some post, I must admit the I did say "Ike99 needed to be humbled." God Willing. I noticed I am a Matrix veteran w/ 2 stars and Ike is elite w/ 4 stars. I guess that means he puts out 2x BS.

I believe it is good to be humbled from time to time. So I do invite Ikesan to give me an unconditional and decisive victory.[:D]

quote:

I hope you continue to play in an adverse situation.

I´m not in a adverse situation, you are..you just don´t know it yet. Your bombings are not hurting me. My supplies grow, I easily put more supplies on than you can bomb off. Not to mention the 10 months of stockpiling supplies. You will not bomb me out of supplies.

The only thing you have is invasion to cut my points. We´ll see how that goes for you.

< Message edited by Ike99 -- 12/22/2008 7:56:15 AM >

Well Ikesan, are you wrong?

quote:

You better bring the kitchen sink.

Will 30,000+ Japanese in Nadzab in 3 turns do?

The Nazib paradrop was the most hair raising event as Ike had placed undetected SNLF units on the Kogodo trail. He realy did scare me when in private he had said he had ninty thousand troops coming down the road from Lae. I knew he was bluffing after I read the 30000 number on the forum. His head game almost worked as I considered pulling the plug(withdrawal) at nazib.
A key to this game and the current situation is why the IJA never arrived at Nazib???
Remember IKE said they were coming but they never made the party. If Ike had caught the 503rd on the ground unrienforced at nazib and pushed them off the airbase he could have rolled up my whole plan of attack. As a matter of fact the troops never left Lae and I airlifted two australian divisions into nazib for the lae attack. Did any reader ever figure out why the IJA never got to Nazib?? Maybe Ike was bluffing about this also.

This is still one hell of a match. 3 months and 15 days left. Is it time for the bayonet to his heart?


This photo is from a horrific hand to hand combat film scene. "Saving Private Ryan".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIEx9gVT ... feature=iv

[Ike99]

So I do invite Ikesan to give me an unconditional and decisive victory.

I give you nothing and you are a long way from decisive victory with about 100 days left.

More specific. I calculate 102 turns left with you needing 1600 more points.

Here is what I give you...

[Ike99]

This photo is from a horrific hand to hand combat film scene. "Saving Private Ryan".

Perhaps one of our German friends here can tell us what the German is saying to him in this scene.

[xj900uk]

It's true that all the Allied player has to do in '42 is sit back & wait for the big build-up in '43 to re-take everything the Jap player may have and basically sweep him from the board.
I'm playing Ike at the moment with myself as the Jap player & I can't afford to wait for him to build up his strength, whether I've preserved my Midway Carriers & a good % of their pilots or not.&nbsp; I am taking the game to him, using every trick I can think of to beat him or at least have an unattainable lead by the end of '42

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

So I do invite Ikesan to give me an unconditional and decisive victory.

I give you nothing and you are a long way from decisive victory with about 100 days left.

More specific. I calculate 102 turns left with you needing 1600 more points.

Here is what I give you...

Understandable for a stubborn IJ commander. Where is my atomic bomb? I see I am not dealing with a quiter.

[Ike99]

Understandable for a stubborn IJ commander. Where is my atomic bomb? I see I am not dealing with a quiter.

103 turns left

[bigred]

Intel noted heavy barge traffic around Buin and Shortland.&nbsp; So in Thunderstorms Russell Island LBA was ordered to 100ft port attack.&nbsp; We did not hit any barges but look at the troop loss at Buin.&nbsp; I wonder what the supply level is at Buin.&nbsp; Maybe an answer after the game.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 09/19/43

Weather: Thunderstorms

Sub attack at 27,28

Japanese Ships
DD Sazanami

Allied Ships
SS Gudgeon


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Shortland Island , at 29,34

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
A6M3 Zero x 6

Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero x 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell x 15 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 98

Port hits 6

Attacking Level Bombers:
5 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Buin , at 28,33

Japanese aircraft

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 14
B-25J Mitchell x 51

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate x 3 destroyed
B5N Kate x 1 damaged
A6M2 Zero x 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell x 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 667
Guns lost 2

Port hits 7
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 1

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
2 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
5 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell at 100 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Tulagi at 38,39

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 3

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally x 3 damaged


Allied Ships
DD Patterson

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x Ki-21 Sally at 1000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Madang , at 7,30


Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 40
P-47C Thunderbolt x 17


no losses

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 20


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ike99]

I wonder what the supply level is at Buin.

What does it look like?

9-21-43

[bigred]

Ok, he said:

"hey, stop! You have not the slightest chance. Let´s end it here. It´s going to
get easier for you now. Much easier. At least it´s over then (for you)"


Ralf

ORIGINAL: Ike99

This photo is from a horrific hand to hand combat film scene. "Saving Private Ryan".

Perhaps one of our German friends here can tell us what the German is saying to him in this scene.

[bigred]

I disagree with this point of view as the allies and as the Japs. I have my reasons to believe it is good for the allied player to lay low the first 7 months. I also believe the Japs can follow either one of 2 strategies to win, depending on the allied moves.

ORIGINAL: xj900uk

It's true that all the Allied player has to do in '42 is sit back & wait for the big build-up in '43 to re-take everything the Jap player may have and basically sweep him from the board.
I'm playing Ike at the moment with myself as the Jap player & I can't afford to wait for him to build up his strength, whether I've preserved my Midway Carriers & a good % of their pilots or not.  I am taking the game to him, using every trick I can think of to beat him or at least have an unattainable lead by the end of '42

[bigred]

Looks like the IJ LBA can no longer get the job done.

[bigred]

Note how few IJN Capitol ships have been sunk.
The bloody part of this campaign may be just around the corner.

[Ike99]

Ok, he said:

"hey, stop! You have not the slightest chance. Let´s end it here. It´s going to get easier for you now. Much easier. At least it´s over then (for you)"

What´s the easy part about having a nife go into your lung?

[:D]