Computer Europe at War

[Twotribes]

They have a board up, I ask if they could find a quicker way to ship to Europe. Strategy and Tactics runs the board. Perhaps you can find the address at Decision games or by searching for Strategy and tactics . I do not like posting links to other game companies on , well another game companies site )

[Twotribes]

Fellow In UK said it only took 11 days to get his game, though customs held it up without telling him cause they wanted some cash.

[killroyishere]

I think it's kind of funny how most gamers will spend hundreds if not a thousand dollars or more on a computer rig and then some complain about a game being $40-$50 or even $94 haha. If it's something you want to play and the quality is good then $40-$100 for that game shouldn't be an issue. But, that's computer gamers for you they are a much different brood of people than board wargamers.
 
And on that subject I don't think 'most' hard core board wargamers are even going to have computers (for wargaming) since they are putting most of that hardware money (most of us put into computers) into buying their board wargames. So, I don't really think there is a huge market for computer wargames without an ai like madgamer spoke about above. I was a board wargamer in my youth, but, you couldn't get me to go back to that form of playing even if there were thousands of board wargames for computers (which there aren't).
 
I enjoy my games against an ai opponent and that is what I prefer 99% of the time now as I don't have to setup any times or check my email 100 times a day or once a day waiting on a turn. PBEM is still a waiting game and is still the slow way to play. There's not enough time anymore for slow playing games. I'd rather play TCP/IP myself if I'm going to play another human opponent.

[Twotribes]

Thus this type of game is no competition for what Matrix sells. I switched to computers from board games cause I could not find live opponents to play. ANY time I find an old board game made faithfully into a computer version I am going to get it if it was one of the 80 or so games I own and have rotting away in my garage. Solo play is no big deal and if I want I can easily find live opponents. These monster games were slow to play anyway, with a very active turn taking quite a while to work through.

[Lützow]

Probably it's just me, but I can't see the advantage of a missing AI in CEaW when computer-based wargames usually delivers both, solitaire and pbem play. Anyway, feel free to enlighten me how this rather bland looking title stands out from TOAW or the upcoming WiF.

[JudgeDredd]

Well I spent £500 on my computer. But comparing game prices to computer hardware is hardly productive or fair. I was comparing apples to apples...you are comparing oranges to grapes.
 
I was comparing the game to the cost of other games which have an AI and I think, pound for pound, there's less there. I also said if there wasn't the wastage that is postage, then I would consider it. Postage is burning money to me...and I wouldn't sit here and burn $34...would you?

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: madgamer

I do not mean any disrespect here but I go back to the days of those big monster games that even if you liked them the space and setup time were enormous. I have the original and am selling with my other board games.
The point here is using the computer as tabletop and moderator. The hardcore board gamers like me are still out here and still have the same problems of space,time,and finding people who can actually get together to play. I for one hope this type of game production goes on because now the games like WIE can be played with the computer.
{snip}

Madgamer

What’s wrong with the existing PC outlet for tabletop gamers ……..vassal ?

[davetheroad]

ORIGINAL: Lützow

Probably it's just me, but I can't see the advantage of a missing AI in CEaW when computer-based wargames usually delivers both, solitaire and pbem play. Anyway, feel free to enlighten me how this rather bland looking title stands out from TOAW or the upcoming WiF.

There is no missing AI because the AI was never there in the first place.

I understand the design brief was to port the board game to a modern windows environment so you could play online. This helps with 2 fundamental problems, lack of opponents and no room to set out the huge maps. They have added a bunch of new stuff as options so the game engine can be radically different than the original. I don't think making vast profits is their main motivation, it is probably love of the game or maybe even obsession[;)]

CEaW has production and important for me is basically simple in concept if large. Ever tried a giant TOAW east front scenario?, no way, I just can't handle the information overload. There is nothing wrong with TOAW and I used to game it a lot, even produced the original base map on which all those monster east front scenarios were built.

Shipping is too expensive if you have to add in customs charges etc. Even so I happily paid the cost as it still works out a lot cheaper than going down the pub!

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: davetheroad

I understand the design brief was to port the board game to a modern windows environment so you could play online. This helps with 2 fundamental problems, lack of opponents and no room to set out the huge maps. They have added a bunch of new stuff as options so the game engine can be radically different than the original. I don't think making vast profits is their main motivation, it is probably love of the game or maybe even obsession[;)]

Then let the existing community that already own n’ supports the product release a vassal module if that’s the case......[;)]

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: Sarge

ORIGINAL: davetheroad

I understand the design brief was to port the board game to a modern windows environment so you could play online. This helps with 2 fundamental problems, lack of opponents and no room to set out the huge maps. They have added a bunch of new stuff as options so the game engine can be radically different than the original. I don't think making vast profits is their main motivation, it is probably love of the game or maybe even obsession[;)]

Then let the existing community that already own n’ supports the product release a vassal module if that’s the case......[;)]

Mainly because VASSAL doesn't enforce the rules where CWIE does. VASSAL won't do all the bookkeeping where CWIE does. CWIE is so much more than "just a port" to computer, it includes an enforced rule book, a bookkeeper and dozens of optional rules that were always a problem keeping track of the rule changes.... all done for you so you can focus on playing the game.

I too, however, have a problem with the postage to Canada. If they ever do digital download I'll buy it. Plus it's easier to get it by my wife that way....[;)]

[JudgeDredd]

I admire what they've done. And, fwiw, I think it's a great idea for moving boardgames into the Computer, however, it's still too expensive.

[Twotribes]

Buying the board game is not an option. The remake cost 250 dollars and finding one in good enough condition to play of the old ones is gonna cost ya a fortune too. So vassel is out.

[madgamer2]

Your point about price and shipping charges is well taken. I would not have bought it if it was not this particular game. As for downloading options I can take them or leave them.
There are two types of gamers who this kind of product could possibly appeal to:
1. Old board gamers like me who remember the monster games of the 70's but lacking time, space and people to play they spent most of the time on the shelf. Now finding possible gamers is a bit easier.
2. Computer gamers who play all/mostly all there games PBEM.

Those gamers who are not familiar with board games and have spent there whole gaming lives on the computer with AI's to play may not find this type of game appealing. There is one aspect of CWIE that is not really covered. If two playeres want to play both fronts and there is no third player for the Russian who could do many things in the board game that can't be done in CWIE because the Russians become the responsibility of the Allied player in CWE which is sad.

The only other thing is that because of the number of great monster board games lieing in some designers closet could see life again and be playable. There seems to be a large group of new players who PBEM that might go for games in this style. The drawback to this is that the games from the 70's not having computers seem a bit bland to new gamers I would think.
I just have a great liking for this particular game. There is no real proof that the old board games would appeal to the computer gamer who has no experience with the board games, let alone computer gamers like me who remember them because with computers games can be more complex and still playable.
As for download only purchase I will not do that again. I want the disk and manual and even the storage box. I have had computer meltdowns before and lost my order numbers and even with the Disk I had to get the SN for one game from Matrix because for some reason a new Mobo, memory and CPU install caused WitP to revert to version 1.5 or some thing and deleted all my saved games and a folder in the game folder with the purchase info and SN. I have all the updates but without the SN I could not install them. I have no idea why this happened. I could not find my copy of the game and now think it was taken by someone at my house during a party a couple of weeks ago.

I do agree that a download option and a bit of a lower price would help....and no I did not mean to imply that you were some kind of dummy, and do apologize for that.
I have found your post to be interesting even if I do not always agree with them but that is what make horse races and ballgames.

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

Yeah I found that the shipping cost was the same within the states. I would think that those closer to the shipping point which is in CA would get lower rates. It did seem to me even after adding the extra $5 for so called faster shipping it still took a week to get to Iowa.

Madgamer

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: madgamer
...
I do agree that a download option and a bit of a lower price would help....and no I did not mean to imply that you were some kind of dummy, and do apologize for that.
I have found your post to be interesting even if I do not always agree with them but that is what make horse races and ballgames.

Madgamer

I didn't think that madgamer. I was just pointing out I did get our point. It didn't cross my mind you thought or were suggesting I was a dummy[;)]

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

Mainly because VASSAL doesn't enforce the rules where CWIE does. VASSAL won't do all the bookkeeping where CWIE does. CWIE is so much more than "just a port" to computer, it includes an enforced rule book, a bookkeeper and dozens of optional rules that were always a problem keeping track of the rule changes.... all done for you so you can focus on playing the game.

I too, however, have a problem with the postage to Canada. If they ever do digital download I'll buy it. Plus it's easier to get it by my wife that way....[;)]

Actually WIE along with other SPI titles were indeed on vassal and had quite a following second only to VASL till Decision Games forced them removed when SPI online gaming rights where sold to IIRC UK Hexwars .

But I do agree rule enforcement and bookkeeping do indeed have value especially for monster titles like EIW……..[;)]

[Jeffrey H.]

Is anyone playing hexwar ? I looked over their site and it seemed kind of interesting but I can't tell how many people are actually using it.

[Lebatron]

ORIGINAL: Sarge


But I do agree rule enforcement and bookkeeping do indeed have value especially for monster titles like EIW……..[;)]

For another great monster board game that can be played using a system like vassal but with actual rule enforcement and such look to Warplanner. This engine is specifiaclly designed for Advanced Third Reich and its sucessor A World at War. AWAW was not made by Avalon Hill however. AWAW was made by GMT. In any case Warplanner is sweet. The map graphics are identical to the published map. Give it a look.

http://www.warplanner.com/whatisit.aspx

[killroyishere]

you are comparing oranges to grapes.

No I am comparing money spent on a hobby to money spent on a hobby. You spend a load of cash on a piece of hardware, in fact many pieces of hardware. Computer, video card, sound cards, 3D surround sound equipment and the list goes on an on and then you or others complain about the solo price of another component for your hobby the game or program. I just find it funny the complaining about one product for the hobby and not the rest. How longs a video card last these days? How long is that game going to last in replayability? How much did you pay for that video card vs that game? You'll get a lot more life out of that game or games than you ever will your hardware. How many times have you upgraded? Do you hang out at the hardware forums and complain about their pricing? lol

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Lebatron

ORIGINAL: Sarge


But I do agree rule enforcement and bookkeeping do indeed have value especially for monster titles like EIW……..[;)]

For another great monster board game that can be played using a system like vassal but with actual rule enforcement and such look to Warplanner. This engine is specifiaclly designed for Advanced Third Reich and its sucessor A World at War. AWAW was not made by Avalon Hill however. AWAW was made by GMT. In any case Warplanner is sweet. The map graphics are identical to the published map. Give it a look.

http://www.warplanner.com/whatisit.aspx

Thanks for the heads up ………..[;)]
I believe at one point there was talk Matrix was going to publish/develop GMT’s AWAW port to PC, I think it was dropped early on in the planning stage ?

again thanks for the link I will be looking into that one