Thai forces.

[aciddrinker]

How many of thai forces is added whit AE. There will be some restricted HQ for this LCU's if they be included?. And what about Japan puppet nations Navy? Thailand haved few old CL and DD's also some old SS, if i good remember manchuko haved also some small navy forces. Are this ships included also ?

[Andy Mac]

You get 6 weak Thai infantry divs and 1 weak Cav Div in AE plus an HQ and a small Aviation company
 
No air or naval vessels
 
Andy

[Andy Mac]

They are fully restricted and  recommend a house rule not allowing them to leave SEA

[Q-Ball]

Are there any Vichy French forces? Was the "Vietnam" special rule that created militia units in WITP amended or eliminated in AE?

What made me think of that is the Thai unit restrictions. Historically, I think the Japanese would have prevented the Royal Thai Army from moving into French Indochina, as that would anger the Vichy administration, which the Japanese needed to run things.

[HMS Resolution]

I thought most of the Thai navy was wrecked by the French at Koh Chang anyway.

[Q-Ball]

They lost those two big Coast Defense Ships. They still had 7 TBs, 2 relatively new Sloops, and 2 gunboats, but keeping them out of AE was the right choice. They sat in port and did nothing anyway. An enterprising Japanese player could use them much more aggressively.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Are there any Vichy French forces? Was the "Vietnam" special rule that created militia units in WITP amended or eliminated in AE?

What made me think of that is the Thai unit restrictions. Historically, I think the Japanese would have prevented the Royal Thai Army from moving into French Indochina, as that would anger the Vichy administration, which the Japanese needed to run things.

Vichy forces have not been included - apart from the coastal defense batteries at Haiphong, Cam Ranh and Saigon (which were controlled by the Japanese).

The VM militia units are still there, but they use their own squads + French equipment if triggered.

Thai forces - Historically interesting subject. We included them into the AE but still have some doubts if this was a wise choice despite the restrictions put on them. I'm quite sure that some players will find quite creative uses for them.

[Andy Mac]

I agree this was one of th ehardest calls we made and I am also still not convinced
 
Keep them in Thailand and everyone is happy !!!

[Anonymous]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
They lost those two big Coast Defense Ships. They still had 7 TBs, 2 relatively new Sloops, and 2 gunboats, but keeping them out of AE was the right choice. They sat in port and did nothing anyway. An enterprising Japanese player could use them much more aggressively.

May we see pictures of the Thailand coast defense ships and others please, or the French ones.

MO

[HMS Resolution]

 
 
Here's Dhonburi, anyway. Cute little thing.

[Q-Ball]

Here is a good line drawing of Thonburi.....8in turrets

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I agree this was one of th ehardest calls we made and I am also still not convinced

Keep them in Thailand and everyone is happy !!!

This seems like the best solution. From what I understand, they did nothing more than dip their toe in Burma, and hardly fired a shot all war.

I personally think Chinese Troops should also have house limits to reflect historical realities. No loading on ships, and not moving more than 300 miles or so from the Chinese border, basically Northern Burma, Vietnam, Outer Mongolia. I have read AARs with Chinese Corps wading ashore on Sumatra or Malaya, no chance of that IRL.

[tigercub]

I agree the Thai Government as then and still today are all for Thai people and really don't care to much for outsiders hence they did not fight to much during the war keep to helping them selves, I know my wife to be is Thai.

Tiger!

[Q-Ball]

OK, another question for the AE Developers along the same lines......

What do the Chinese Collaborationist and Manchukuo forces look like? I would think it's difficult to model forces that were very large on paper, and had some value as security troops, but virtually no value in any kind of real combat.

In certain WITP mods, the Japanese would start with some crappy Manchukuo units with experience levels of "10", but these would train up to acceptable combat ability within a few months.

Tough to model! What did you guys decide?

[afspret]

Wasn't New Caledonia Vichy?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that they wouldn't co-operate with or let Ghormely set up his HQ on land in Noumea, but when Halsey took over, he really didn't give them a choice in the matter!  At the start of Scens 15 & 16 in WitP (the only ones I've played other than the tutorial),  Noumea and the surrounding bases all belong to the US and there is already a USN Base Force established @ Noumea.  So, if New Caledonia is Vichy, wouldn't it seem logical to have some French troops present?

I'm also going to buck the trend and say put all the Siamese land, naval & air units, along with those of Manchuokuo & the Chinese Collaborationist, at least in the data base (with 999999 arrival dates) and then let the players decided how or if to use them. 

[Jorm]

ORIGINAL: afspret

Wasn't New Caledonia Vichy?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that they wouldn't co-operate with or let Ghormely set up his HQ on land in Noumea, but when Halsey took over, he really didn't give them a choice in the matter!  At the start of Scens 15 & 16 in WitP (the only ones I've played other than the tutorial),  Noumea and the surrounding bases all belong to the US and there is already a USN Base Force established @ Noumea.  So, if New Caledonia is Vichy, wouldn't it seem logical to have some French troops present?

I'm also going to buck the trend and say put all the Siamese land, naval & air units, along with those of Manchuokuo & the Chinese Collaborationist, at least in the data base (with 999999 arrival dates) and then let the players decided how or if to use them. 

No, new Caledonia wasnt 'vichy'. Some french controlled regions chose a semi independant path, not vichy but not wholey free french as defined by degaulle (sp?). Im sure one of our french WITP guys will be able to give correct details of the confused status of french units at the time.

[Barb]

New Caledonia was in fact just deciding if to join Vichy or FFL. There were some talks and one Corvette (or gunboat or aviso or something smaller then DD) with pro-Vichy capitain. But after some talks they joined the allies in oct 1940. No bigger armed unit present - maybe security and police.

[Skyland]

There was a small force with a coastal battery composed of four 95mm mle88 guns and two 20mm Oerlikon AA.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Barb

New Caledonia was in fact just deciding if to join Vichy or FFL. There were some talks and one Corvette (or gunboat or aviso or something smaller then DD) with pro-Vichy capitain. But after some talks they joined the allies in oct 1940. No bigger armed unit present - maybe security and police.

New Caledonia declared for Free France in mid-1940, after HMAS Adelaide scared off the Vichy Colonial Sloops that were requested by the Vichy governor. The governor subsequently turned over control to a pro-Gaulist committee, which was supported by the majority of the population.

Between then and mid-1941 a Pacific Marine Battalion was formed from volunteers (half from Tahiti) and sent to North Africa to fight with the allies. Also, a small Australian Engineer force (Robin Force) was installing two 6inch coastal guns at Quen Toro Hill, Noumea. The guns were provided by New Zealand, having been removed from old cruisers.

The French Garrision in New Caledonia was a weak battalion (7-800 men as I recall). Named New Caledonia Battalion (but in French) individuals within it wavered in loyalty to both Vichy and Free France. The unit did nothing to aid either side, and generally performed police duties (especially after the arrival of large US Army formations).

The two major Free French ships in the Pacific (excluding Indian Ocean) were:
the minesweeping sloop Chevreuil, based out of Tahiti but in New Caledonia waters when war began, and
the large destroyer Le Triomphant, attached to the Royal New Zealand navy but primarily operated with the Royal Australian Navy.

Another minesweeping sloop and one of the large colonial sloops were in the Indian Ocean, although I can be sure of the exact time frame. Also a former French Government cable laying ship that had previously laid international phone cables but was used to lay anti-submarine acoustic cables for harbor defense in various Indian Ocean bases.

Also a Free French Armed Merchant Cruiser, currently on the US West Coast (maybe refitting, don't recall off hand) and at least one Free French troop ship working with the British.

[Skyland]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen



Also a Free French Armed Merchant Cruiser, currently on the US West Coast (maybe refitting, don't recall off hand)

AMC Cap des Palmes was at Noumea in december 1941 and was transferring from dec 19th the japanese civilians living in New Caledonia to Australia. The refit occured only from Jan 43.