Midgets

[Terminus]

Er, no... The AIRCRAFT was the more successful innovation when attacking enemy ships in their bases. Midget subs were a waste of resources.

[Iridium]

Midget Subs can be used for base defense as well no? Create 5 of them and form a TF...it should cause some mischief among a bombardment fleet or transport ships.

[Dili]

The 6* Italian CB Midget subs in Black Sea sunk 2 Soviet Submarines(plus one unconfirmed) in one year May42-May43.

http://www.modelshipwrights.com/modules ... 380&page=1

*(in practice 5 since one of those was almost from start sunk by aircraft bombing attack in the harbour)

Actually, I wonder whether the AE team have let an opportunity slip. Why doesn't the RN get some XE craft in 1945, wherewith to emulate the extraordinarily courageous attack of Fraser and Magennis in XE-3 upon the Takao at Singapore? Or did I miss something in the reinforcement queue?

Yeah, i found surprising that AE team limited midgets to Japan only. After British copied the Italian chariots they started to use them against Italians itself from 1943.

[Knavey]

Another point is that although they did not use them (the non-afro midgets) effectively, SOMEONE in the Japanese command was planning on using them. This is a LOT of submarines.

[Nikademus]

basically with midgets.....expect very low returns from high efforts. Depending on the target though.....you might experience some joy and produce some new swear words from your opponent.

[juliet7bravo]

Dan Bowen hit it right.  Any ASW assets you tie down in the rear, are assets that aren't being used at the front.  What was the point of having long range I-boats that could carry midgets, if you didn't transport them long-distances?  Then using the midgets against the most heavily defended bases, when civilian ports bursting with shipping were (comparatively speaking) wide-open all up and down the West Coast?

"I maintain the problem with mine warfare in WITP was not mines, it was how the depth of the ocean was modelled on the map. Atols and some islands should not be coastal hexes, they should be deep water."

Also exactly right.  Might have also used mine fields that were based on percent effective to reflect mine density, with their effectiveness maxing at 100%, regardless of how many additional mines were laid.  The current solution was "throwing the baby out with the bath water".

[oldman45]

I just had a mini sub attack a ship outside of Sydney, then I had another minisub attack outside of Rabaul.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

I'd recommend that you do use them. Grab a couple and the big I-Boats that can carry them and stage a raid on a major rear area base (Sydney, San Francisco, Bombay maybe). You might catch your opponent with no ASW assets assigned to protect his rear area harbors. And once you do raid once or twice, he will have no option but to assign such assets - which he badly needs elsewhere.

Obviously you have never actually tried doing this. Mommy boats usually hit the minefields and their spawn hits a fair number as well. And if you do manage to get 1 into the port, a hit on anything bigger than a DD isnt going to sink it sooooo, you just gave up 15 to 40 points (or more) for what? To damage a BB? Big deal.

No way in hell are these things worth the points you lose for using them. Best thing is to put them in a friendly port (like Saipan) and use them as a floating minefield.

[juliet7bravo]

Interesting bit of useless trivia from a tanker TROM;

"Summer 1941:
Enroute to Los Angeles to load a cargo of oil, KENYO MARU stops at Kwajalein, Marshall Islands. At the IJN's submarine base, she takes a Type A midget submaine under tow. KENYO MARU tows the midget underwater to the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands. There, the midget is again taken under tow by another oiler and towed underwater back to Kwajalein. The purpose of this exercise is give the midget submariners deep sea towing and navigation experience."

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

I'd recommend that you do use them. Grab a couple and the big I-Boats that can carry them and stage a raid on a major rear area base (Sydney, San Francisco, Bombay maybe). You might catch your opponent with no ASW assets assigned to protect his rear area harbors. And once you do raid once or twice, he will have no option but to assign such assets - which he badly needs elsewhere.

Obviously you have never actually tried doing this. Mommy boats usually hit the minefields and their spawn hits a fair number as well. And if you do manage to get 1 into the port, a hit on anything bigger than a DD isnt going to sink it sooooo, you just gave up 15 to 40 points (or more) for what? To damage a BB? Big deal.

No way in hell are these things worth the points you lose for using them. Best thing is to put them in a friendly port (like Saipan) and use them as a floating minefield.

I've done a total of 4 starts in AE. Three times there have been torpedo hits on a BB by a midget sub. In one case that BB was hit by nothing else during the turn, but sank during combat resolution anyway. One midget torpedo hit sank one BB.

[Add: Talking about Pearl Harbor turn 1.]

[Brady]

The best use in game for them I have found is to use them as they were off Gudacanal.

The Game rutine favors larger ports* if thats what your trying to use them for, port atacks. For port atacks I never send the mother sub into the hex, but park her one hex off the port hex. I have never had any suxcess with port atacks out side of the odd hit at Pearl in my tests. (this largely do to mines, midgets never hit any mines of course during the war).

If used defensively or like they were off Gudacanal they will work with some modest suxcess I have found.



* The rutine considers the port size in determing how well the Midget will do, smaller ports are bad.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

[Add: Talking about Pearl Harbor turn 1.]

We are talking about everything BUT the turn 1 attack.