Pilot Experience, Training and Combat

[Mike Solli]

Tomcat, also keep in mind that all Japanese reinforcement air units came with pilots in WitP.  In AE, the pilots all come out of the pool.  There are numerous months where the average number of pilot graduates (not even counting the ~2% loss per month) is less than the number of pilots needed for reinforcements.

[Yakface]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Tomcat, also keep in mind that all Japanese reinforcement air units came with pilots in WitP.  In AE, the pilots all come out of the pool.  There are numerous months where the average number of pilot graduates (not even counting the ~2% loss per month) is less than the number of pilots needed for reinforcements.

Aw sh*t - you're kidding right?

[Mynok]

'Too many Jap' pilots is a straw man I keep seeing complained about. The Japanese get NO quality pilots other than the special reinforcement named ones. NONE.

All of them must be trained in the pool for a year and then on the ground for at least three months (looks like a lot more than that now after the patch with some skills being untrainable).

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Yakface

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Tomcat, also keep in mind that all Japanese reinforcement air units came with pilots in WitP.  In AE, the pilots all come out of the pool.  There are numerous months where the average number of pilot graduates (not even counting the ~2% loss per month) is less than the number of pilots needed for reinforcements.

Aw sh*t - you're kidding right?

HISTORY

The Japanese operational units conducted operational training. That meant serious casualties resulted in damage to both the operational and advanced training capacities. Fragile?

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Yakface

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Tomcat, also keep in mind that all Japanese reinforcement air units came with pilots in WitP.  In AE, the pilots all come out of the pool.  There are numerous months where the average number of pilot graduates (not even counting the ~2% loss per month) is less than the number of pilots needed for reinforcements.

Aw sh*t - you're kidding right?

Nope. I posted it a while back. I can't find it right now. Maybe at home.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Yakface

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Tomcat, also keep in mind that all Japanese reinforcement air units came with pilots in WitP.  In AE, the pilots all come out of the pool.  There are numerous months where the average number of pilot graduates (not even counting the ~2% loss per month) is less than the number of pilots needed for reinforcements.

Aw sh*t - you're kidding right?

Nope. I posted it a while back. I can't find it right now. Maybe at home.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Yakface

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Tomcat, also keep in mind that all Japanese reinforcement air units came with pilots in WitP.  In AE, the pilots all come out of the pool.  There are numerous months where the average number of pilot graduates (not even counting the ~2% loss per month) is less than the number of pilots needed for reinforcements.

Aw sh*t - you're kidding right?

Nope. I posted it a while back. I can't find it right now. Maybe at home.

[Mike Solli]

Found it. Here it is. Note that the yellow months are where the pilot requirement from reinforcements exceeds the average monthly pilot production (not including the wastage):

[Tomcat]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Found it. Here it is. Note that the yellow months are where the pilot requirement from reinforcements exceeds the average monthly pilot production (not including the wastage):

Assuming a 12 month lag to train pilots to minimum front line standards, then for the few months you highlighted the replacement rate for Japanese pilots would fall below the requirements for those months, even assuming no "wastage". (Of course in 1943 the replacement rate for IJN jumps to 480 pilots per month.)
Still, unless there is massive wastage from operations, and more attrition from combat than what we seem to see so far, the total number of Japanese pilots, and flyable airplanes, will seem to increase throughout the war, while it will probably be the case that the average skill level will drop (as it may well drop for allied pilots as well). Somehow this doesn't seem right to me. I have the impression that not only the average quality but the total number of planes the Japanese can put in the air should decrease over time, assuming the allied player somewhat matches history. Am I wrong?

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Tomcat
Of course in 1943 the replacement rate for IJN jumps to 480 pilots per month.)

I have the impression that not only the average quality but the total number of planes the Japanese can put in the air should decrease over time, assuming the allied player somewhat matches history. Am I wrong?

Where did you learn that the monthly replacement rate for Japanese jumps in 1943? I've never heard that before? (I don't doubt you. I'm just curious.)

I'm not sure I agree with your statement about the total number of planes the Japanese can put into the air. Historically, the Allied destroyed thousands of Japanese planes on the ground in 1945, prior to the planned invasion of Japan. I don't have the numbers on Japanese production in front of me. Actually, I don't have them at all. [:D] I can only speak in generalities. The Japanese had a relatively few number of planes in operational units at the start of the war. The fact that the Allies destroyed thousands of planes late in the war gives me the impression that the relative number of planes rose during the war. Again, no numbers. That'll take some time (and being home where I have resources).

[Q-Ball]

We'll find out around X-Mas or so, but as the first serious PBEM's get into early 1943, I bet we'll start hearing about the collapse of Japanese Pilot quality.

[Tomcat]

The scenario for the full campaign changes the number of pilots going into the training pool. By 1943 it increases substantially. If I can figure out how to do this reply I'll imbed a screen capture of the editor's scenario parameters.

I also checked my actual air losses for my current game. I'm in march 1942 and the stats are:

Allied air losses (all sources) 1446
Japanese losses (all sources) 1585

Allied pilot losses 93 WIA, 67 MIA, 96 KIA
Japanese losses 123 WIA, 68 MIA, 94 KIA

so, assuming the WIA never come back, I am seeing about 18% attrition of pilots, and note at this time I have several carrier to carrier engagements. The total pilot losses for both the allies and the Japanese are well below the replacement levels, so the number of pilots should be increasing for both sides. Also, the number of airframes alone isn't the issue (for me), it is the number of airframes the Japanes can put in the air because they have enough pilots.

[Mike Solli]

Tomcat, another dumb question:  Where are you getting the pilot losses data from?  Are you counting them up on the screen that shows the pilots with kills or from somewhere else.  If you're getting it from that screen, you don't see those pilots that were lost who didn't have a kill.  (I supect you're getting that data from another source, but don't know for sure.)  Thanks.

[Mike Solli]

By the way, thanks for that screenshot.

[Dili]

Those Cat drivers had NavT skills ranging from the teens to the mid-30's, with the best shot having a 39. Allied fanboy that I am, I think this sort of result is a bit out of whack. I'll grant that it wouldn't have likely happened in a PBEM game. A human opponent would have had air cover for that TF, or at least better AA escorts. (There were some DDs along, I think, but the AI lost most of them before this attack took place (which was September 15, 1943).

This seems the same issue with Naval crew quality, before Torpedo Boats modification that crew quality didn't mattered much. How bizarre is that!?

[Tomcat]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Tomcat, another dumb question:  Where are you getting the pilot losses data from?  Are you counting them up on the screen that shows the pilots with kills or from somewhere else.  If you're getting it from that screen, you don't see those pilots that were lost who didn't have a kill.  (I supect you're getting that data from another source, but don't know for sure.)  Thanks.

Mike,
I used WitP Tracker AE (1.01). I go to the tab for pilots and simply count the number of pilots with WIA, MIA, or KIA status. I also did a simple cross-check. At the start of the scenario it seems that IJN has1700 pilots in the pool, and IJA has 2200. At this point WitP Tracker is telling me there are 1954 IJN pilots in the pool and 2517 IJA pilots, which seems to corroborate my suspicion that the total number of Japanese pilots will increase over time despite pilot losses. If I knew precisely how AE puts pilots into the pool I could nail it down to the level of detail where I could verify that the increase equaled new pilots into the pool minus losses, but I don't think I can be that precise just now.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Tomcat

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Tomcat, another dumb question:  Where are you getting the pilot losses data from?  Are you counting them up on the screen that shows the pilots with kills or from somewhere else.  If you're getting it from that screen, you don't see those pilots that were lost who didn't have a kill.  (I supect you're getting that data from another source, but don't know for sure.)  Thanks.

Mike,
I used WitP Tracker AE (1.01). I go to the tab for pilots and simply count the number of pilots with WIA, MIA, or KIA status. I also did a simple cross-check. At the start of the scenario it seems that IJN has1700 pilots in the pool, and IJA has 2200. At this point WitP Tracker is telling me there are 1954 IJN pilots in the pool and 2517 IJA pilots, which seems to corroborate my suspicion that the total number of Japanese pilots will increase over time despite pilot losses. If I knew precisely how AE puts pilots into the pool I could nail it down to the level of detail where I could verify that the increase equaled new pilots into the pool minus losses, but I don't think I can be that precise just now.

Ahh, thanks Tomcat. I have limited time for AE right now, and spend all that time with the game and none with the editor or WitP Tracker. Can you give some details about the game? Against the AI, etc.? Thanks. Also, how are you handling the pilot replacements? How do you replenish your pilot losses in the units?

[Footslogger]

Mike...do you play AE to get away from your wife?[:D]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

Mike...do you play AE to get away from your wife?[:D]

LOL She knew I was a wargamer from the day she met me. She married me anyway. [:D] Actually, work is kicking my butt keeping me busy. Just found out I'm headed to Georgia in a couple of weeks. [8|] Another week delay getting my PBEM going. [:(]

[erstad]

The "List Top Pilots" screen has the KIA, WIA, and MIA losses at the bottom, so you can see this in-game. It has both campaign total and "Today", which I believe is like all the other "Today"s in that it really refers to the last turn sequence regardless of how many days it was.

I just posted an example of how pilot skills are not increasing in combat over in the warroom. In a unit that killed 42 allied planes over two days, not one showed a skill increase.[&:]