Directive 21 playtesters thread

[sPzAbt653]

2nd Panzer Army has made the closest progress to Moscow. Rather than continue towards the capital, the panzer divisions should probably strike north in order to pocket the Soviet forces around Vyazma-Mozhaysk.

[BigDuke66]

So your running a winter offensive?
Should the German side be capable of such an operation?

[cesteman]

Cant wait for a product to use

[sPzAbt653]

So your running a winter offensive?
Should the German side be capable of such an operation?

I don't see why not.

Cant wait for a product to use

We are working on monitoring how well Elmer does in his defense (with the recent objective track schemes and use of the EEV). Beyond that it seems we are pretty much done with this, so it may not be long. [:)]

[BigDuke66]

Because the German Army wasn't even prepared for the winter at all not to speak of making an offensive.

[cesteman]

I have to agree with the above post. What's the negative shock for the first winter?

[sPzAbt653]

What's the negative shock for the first winter?

At turn 42 the Axis Shock Level is 115%. At turn 43 (Nov 41) it goes to 100%. At turn 73 (Feb 42) it goes to 105%.

I wouldn't say I'm having an offensive in Jan-Feb 42, it's more like an advance to contact (as you can see in the above post with the screen shot of 2nd Panzer Army). Also keep in mind that the mistakes made by the Wehrmacht in Aug-Oct 41 put them in the bad position they were in at Dec 41.

[BigDuke66]

And the Russian shock values?

Is the AI in no position to make a winter offensive?

[cesteman]

I think they have some shock for a few winter turns, I just can't remember what it is for V653.

[sPzAbt653]

The Soviet Shock Level goes to 115 on turn 49 (early Dec), and stays there until turn 61 (early Jan). This Winter Offensive is on a turn range, so the player doesn't know exactly when it will start.

[cesteman]

Nice to know. I assume it will show up in the news report when it's active?

[sPzAbt653]

I seem to remember that it does not. I do remember that all of sudden the Axis units are weaker, and then the Soviets start attacking and you can't hold ground. And it goes on for 10 or so turns. It sucks, but that's life on the East Front.

[cesteman]

Agreed on the life sucking part. Is there any way to let either player know via the new feed when their shock goes up? Knowing me, I would pay attention to losses until three turns after the fact!

[TPOO]

Also, the Axis Shock Level drops to 95% at the start of the Soviet Offensive and recovers to 100% at the end.

[sPzAbt653]

Is there any way to let either player know via the new feed when their shock goes up?

It's difficult to justify because how does an officer know when the troops will perform differently? But ... in the scenario the Axis is notified of shock value changes because otherwise the player doesn't know what is going on (and that is a playability issue). And ... eventually the officers would get word from the front as to what is going on.

No news for the Soviet side though. Elmer doesn't need it (PO Bias is used to calm him down when things are rough, and to kick him in the pants when things are good). We felt that putting Soviet Shock values in the news strings gives the human player an unfair advantage. [:(]

[larryfulkerson]

Hey you guys I downloaded the latest ( I think ) version of D21 and am taking a look around planning my first turn as the Axis and I found out that the RR arty has to be put in rail mode before it can move at the railroad rate. But when the equipment is aboard the train it can't fire. I'm not sure I like that. Seems as though I remember that in FITE you could shoot with your RR arty and didn't have to switch modes to move it because it only had one mode: the RR-moving mode. And further, the D21 RR arty can be moved off the rail lines. Cross-country RR arty doesn't seem right to me. I'm wondering why the unit is deployed like this and how much trouble it would be to "fix" it. Or....maybe you can explain why it's good just the way it is.

Anybody?

[Veers]

$20 says that the modder felt that railroad arty that could dart and dash about firing and then moving, and then firing was not realistic, as prep time was involved before those bad boys could fire. Probably supposed to be a House Rule that they can only move on rail.

But I could be wrong...

[sPzAbt653]

But I could be wrong

But you could be right ... and are!

Hey Mr. Fulkerson, I just sent you the latest file.

Looking into the railroad guns that the Germans used, I came across two things of interest: 1, it took a lot of time and effort to move most of these guns around, and more time and effort to set them up. 2, the total number of shells that some of them fired is pretty low, and some of them were restricted by a limited number of available shells.

As Veers said, to have them represented with a movement allowance over 200, and with unlimited firing ability, didn't seem very good. So we 'fixed' them so that their movement now takes away from the Axis rail capacity (I'd like to make them heavier), they have limited movement because they have to embark/debark, and they have limited rates of fire (due to their low movement allowance). Yes, they can move off rail (actually some did historically, as they were railed to a location and then moved into position by tractor). It's the one downside to the overall situation, but moving them off-rail isn't much fun, as they can only move a little, and if the Russkies catch them they are goners.

[larryfulkerson]

Oh......okay.  Now that you've explained the reasoning behing the deployment it makes sense.  Thanks for that enlightenment.  By the way, the version of D21 that I'm playtesting is dated August  15, 2009.  I'm going to start over ( since I'm only on turn 2 so far ) and use the newest version.  I've uploaded it to a file server and all you guys can find the latest version of D21 at this address:

http://www.mediafire.com/?uamodnczzbm

Thanks to sPzAbt653 and TP00 for all their hard work on D21.

[sPzAbt653]

Thanks to sPzAbt653 for all his hard work on D21

Thanks Mr. Fulkerson, but ... no love for Rick 'TPOO' ??

He and I are sharing the playtesting and modding efforts. [:)]

And for your efforts I will give you some top secret intel [8D]. There is a gap in the Soviet defense between the Don River and the rivers Donetz/Oskol. We've decided that we wanted that area to have some sort of defense, no matter what the overall situation, so we're fixing it up this weekend. But for now, the major crossings from Voroshilovgrad (192,232) north to Novy Oskol (179,207), and the area between there and the Don River, are fairly undefended.

Cheers!