escorting APs with high cruise speed

[bsq]

Whisper

You're right of course, but as he added nothing to the discussion other than to pick on another member, I think he had it coming (especially with his 'years' on forums...).

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Frank

maybe he will be better at level 6! [;)]

There's something screwy about this discussion. I don't remember the US Department of State running its own clearance system. I suspect a troll.

[Reg]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Frank

maybe he will be better at level 6! [;)]

There's something screwy about this discussion. I don't remember the US Department of State running its own clearance system. I suspect a troll.

and anyone who reveals their clearance on a public forum probably doesn't deserve it.....

[Whisper]

ORIGINAL: bsq

Whisper

You're right of course, but as he added nothing to the discussion other than to pick on another member, I think he had it coming (especially with his 'years' on forums...).

Yeah, he was a jerk. But the other guy was a jerk too. How do we deal with this crap?

You got some pretentious buttwipe who pretends he knows something, and then you get people who claim the buttwipe's claims are bogus. I really don't care who is bogus or not. I do know who is pretentious.

[UniformYankee]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: RDonlon

This is one of the most pretentious posts I have seen in many years. I assume you are not a developer because if you were you would have put that in your curious ciriculum vitae. Since you are not, I wonder what in the world you are talking about. Just who do you think you are? And don't play stupid games please. I work for State at sec level 5.

now this is a funny second post... [>:]

Well, if he has only seen 2-3 posts (in many years), then "one of the most pretentious posts I have seen in many years" could very well be a true statement ... but if he has seen thousands and thousands of posts on at least dozens of forums ... well then the statement doesn't make much sense ... I see far more "pretentious" posts on a typical "teeny bopper" forum ... than I ever do around here ...

And yes "I work for State at sec level 5" ... well that is at least funny ... if not sad ... [:(]

[dorjun driver]

Now, now.  No fighting, no biting. 

[Djordje]

ORIGINAL: Whisper

ORIGINAL: bsq

Whisper

You're right of course, but as he added nothing to the discussion other than to pick on another member, I think he had it coming (especially with his 'years' on forums...).

Yeah, he was a jerk. But the other guy was a jerk too. How do we deal with this crap?

You got some pretentious buttwipe who pretends he knows something, and then you get people who claim the buttwipe's claims are bogus. I really don't care who is bogus or not. I do know who is pretentious.

And then we get random people like you who for some reason feel the need to make useless posts.

As far as Herwin is concerned almost all of his posts contained some really useful information. And he never just states something, he also explains his point of view in clear and concise way.

On the other hand the only thing your post did was to make me even more thankful to the one that thought of the nice little green button. I just hope there is no limit for the number of people that can receive its treatment as these forums seem to attract some strange people lately.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: RDonlon

ORIGINAL: herwin
HISTORY

The Queens did not use escorts. They cruised at 29-30 knots, which was sufficiently fast that a sub had a near-nil chance of developing a target solution in the time between first detection and engagement. (When I was doing the system modelling for A/N BSY-2, I had to model this process. There are a number of books in the open literature that address the issues of interest.) Note that the American CVTFs moved at about that speed when strategically deploying, but with cruisers (but not destroyers, however) in attendance to protect against SAGs. They were also pretty much invulnerable to submarine attack.

I don't know what the game does. Most TFs and convoys moved at speeds that subs could handle. This is the sort of issue that you need a background in OR and some submarine experience to get right.

This is one of the most pretentious posts I have seen in many years. I assume you are not a developer because if you were you would have put that in your curious ciriculum vitae. Since you are not, I wonder what in the world you are talking about. Just who do you think you are? And don't play stupid games please. I work for State at sec level 5.

Just a bit of advice. If you are joking you should use the smiley faces. If you are serious , you should seek a doctors help. Elsewere. I'm assuming that you are joking. [:D]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Djordje

ORIGINAL: Whisper

ORIGINAL: bsq

Whisper

You're right of course, but as he added nothing to the discussion other than to pick on another member, I think he had it coming (especially with his 'years' on forums...).

Yeah, he was a jerk. But the other guy was a jerk too. How do we deal with this crap?

You got some pretentious buttwipe who pretends he knows something, and then you get people who claim the buttwipe's claims are bogus. I really don't care who is bogus or not. I do know who is pretentious.

And then we get random people like you who for some reason feel the need to make useless posts.

As far as Herwin is concerned almost all of his posts contained some really useful information. And he never just states something, he also explains his point of view in clear and concise way.

On the other hand the only thing your post did was to make me even more thankful to the one that thought of the nice little green button. I just hope there is no limit for the number of people that can receive its treatment as these forums seem to attract some strange people lately.

+1. Well said.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Frank

please, donßt scare him, he is sec level 5 and works for the state! [:D]

Let me know when it's safe to come out of hiding!

[Whisper]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Frank

please, donßt scare him, he is sec level 5 and works for the state! [:D]

Let me know when it's safe to come out of hiding!

This is like two neuter bulls in the ring in TJ. Fun but not very funny. wow both these peoply are are seriously wierd. Duck and cover.

not Frank or witpqs, I mean those nuts waving their clearances in each others faces.

[tocaff]

Useless posts!?!  I thought they were my specialty.  [:)]

[jb123]

one of my first threads in this forum and it gets hijacked like this.... so, about those APs. I can't imagine the 41st infantry div getting transported without escort. They took the QE in real life, what assets supported them?

[Nomad]

To be honest, I don't think anything did. Most likely they had a DD escort for the first couple of hundred miles and the last couple. But any ASW escort would have just slowed them down and made them vulnerable. Remember they crossed the Atlantic with no escorts also, and it would have been much more dangerous.

[Whisper]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

To be honest, I don't think anything did. Most likely they had a DD escort for the first couple of hundred miles and the last couple. But any ASW escort would have just slowed them down and made them vulnerable. Remember they crossed the Atlantic with no escorts also, and it would have been much more dangerous.

I don't think thay had escorts either irl. But I have seen them get torpedoed by submarines in the Aars, so how do they get protected in the game?

[Iridium]

ORIGINAL: Whisper

I don't think thay had escorts either irl. But I have seen them get torpedoed by submarines in the Aars, so how do they get protected in the game?

They don't apparently...[;)]

At best I could use CVE's posted along the intended path of the QE but this would be a giant waste of resources and only doable late war. The best method to keep them out of harm's way is to use them far from the front lines.

[bradfordkay]

To my knowledge, the DDs only slowed the Queens down. There is the famous case of the Queen Mary slicing through her only escort HMS Curacao (an older CL) and continuing on to Britain unescorted (I am sure that they sent craft out to meet her as she approached Britain). Herwin's post agrees with what I have read - that they counted on speed to foil the subs.

I like to use older CLs (Omahas, British, Aussie, Kiwi or Dutch) as escorts. They can't do anything about the subs, but they can fend off surface raiders - and they can almost keep up with the big liners.

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: Reg

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Frank

maybe he will be better at level 6! [;)]

There's something screwy about this discussion. I don't remember the US Department of State running its own clearance system. I suspect a troll.

and anyone who reveals their clearance on a public forum probably doesn't deserve it.....

I didn't know we need security clearance to play AE! Now, should I mail my signed copy of our version of "Official Secrets Act" to Matrix Games, since I have apparently been exposed to confidential, secret and top secret material on this forum! [:D]

Whole idea of adding some credibility to one's posts by stating "I have security clearance" on WW II Pacific War forum is absolutely ridiculous. [:D]

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

ORIGINAL: Reg

ORIGINAL: herwin




There's something screwy about this discussion. I don't remember the US Department of State running its own clearance system. I suspect a troll.

and anyone who reveals their clearance on a public forum probably doesn't deserve it.....

I didn't know we need security clearance to play AE! Now, should I mail my signed copy of our version of "Official Secrets Act" to Matrix Games, since I have apparently been exposed to confidential, secret and top secret material on this forum! [:D]

Whole idea of adding some credibility to one's posts by stating "I have security clearance" on WW II Pacific War forum is absolutely ridiculous. [:D]

I agree. The only reason I mentioned AN/BSY-2 was to support my argument that fast-moving TFs and ships were immune to WWII submarine attack without getting into the details. I guess I need to fill in the blanks, although bsq made the key point. WWII subs were almost stationary when submerged and not that fast on the surface (around 20 knots). Against a convoy or a TF when it was trundling along at 15 knots, that was enough, but against a CVTF or fast packet at 25-30 knots, the sub had to take a shot as the target passed at speed. Getting a good track on a ship took a while, so the chance of a successful engagement of a fast-moving ship was very low. This had operational significance. A carrier in a hurry out of enemy air range was very hard to take down. Both sides used high speed when they needed to get damaged carriers (Yorktown, Shokaku) out of an engagement or back to a dock yard, and I've found the game gets this detail wrong.

[John Lansford]

Plus, at the speed the QM and QE were travelling, if the sub wasn't already in torpedo range as the ship passed by, there was zero chance the sub could move fast enough to get into firing range before the ship was out of sight.  There were many encounters in the Pacific where USN subs would see fast moving IJN warships but could not get into position to fire torpedoes at them.  Unless the sub was very lucky and the liner was headed almost right at them, there was very little chance they'd get torpedoed.