More Jap economy woes (NO CANOEREBEL)!!

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: xj900uk

I take it substitute 'glide bomb' for 'dive bomb'?  Therefore all DB's must be 10k-20k feet in order to dive bomb?

Re hitting Darwin, good idea but don't use up your decent carrier-trained pilots as they are priceless to the IJN and should be retained for hitting his carriers.  Better to hit with LBA's and for a decent twist go in and hit hard by night first then for an added measure do an unexpected bombardment force (send in DD's first to try and get mines with a BB/CA force hot on their heels)

No. Glide bomb is a different process than dive bombing. Instead of neck snapping high G dives and pullouts at low altitudes, planes enter a shallow 'glide' which is coincidental with an attack vector on the target. There is no 'dive' per se and the attack begins and ends at a higher altitude.

[Miller]

I must admit I'm confused as hell re altitude settings. Setting them above 20000ft is a waste of time as they will hit nothing. I'm going to set all the DB/TB to 12000ft, and the escort to 15000ft, that way hopefully I will get a fully co-ordinated attack.

I am loathe to use my Bettys as they always seem to lose their escort and go in alone, you can guess the rest. Bombardments are a waste of time in AE and besides, the BBs would have to wade through a load of PT boats and small transport TFs before even getting a shot at the base. Any ship that is damaged would be dead the next day.

[DarkestHour]

Escort co-ordination problems have been reported when you set the fighters to a different altitude. Set the escorts to the bombers altitude for best results.

[xj900uk]

No. Glide bomb is a different process than dive bombing. Instead of neck snapping high G dives and pullouts at low altitudes, planes enter a shallow 'glide' which is coincidental with an attack vector on the target. There is no 'dive' per se and the attack begins and ends at a higher altitude.

I honestly know what the difference is, but thanks anyway! I've actually flown (simulated) a few dive-bomb attacks in an old Val, but that's a story for another time!

I must admit I'm confused as hell re altitude settings. Setting them above 20000ft is a waste of time as they will hit nothing. I'm going to set all the DB/TB to 12000ft, and the escort to 15000ft, that way hopefully I will get a fully co-ordinated attack.

Me too, I want my dive-bombers to dive bomb rather than glide bomb! Dive Bombing particularly of enemy ships was usually far more effective, altough I conceed that AA losses could be higher and also glide-bomb is easier for rookie pilots

[Miller]

Well the turn is sent, just awaiting the reply.

300 TB and 220 DB are all going in at 15000ft. Of the 430 available Zeros, 100 will sweep and 230 will escort, leaving 100 for CAP (I doubt I will face any big counterattack but better safe than sorry). All of my TFs are under 200 a/c each so hopefully I wont have any major co-ordination issues.

Clear Sky over the area, I think he spotted my TFs but I have come too far to turn back now. Lets hope the dice rolls are favourable.....[&o]

[nashvillen]

This should be interesting...

New Japanese Fanboy

[Barb]

I hope you didnt forget to maximise DL of his base with your recon [;)]

[undercovergeek]

looking at Canoerebels AAR i dont think it went that well

[Miller]

Hi all, yes, alas it was a disaster.

Instead of going in together the strikes were split up. Against a CAP of 160 fighters (what I expected) the bigger ones got through with even losses in fighters, however the flak was murder. The smaller strikes were eaten alive by CAP.

Total losses over the two days were 77 fighters, 129 TBs (74 a2a, 55 flak) and 150 DBs (29 a2a, 121 flak). So overall I lost 60% of the attacking a/c[X(]

So what did I hit? I'm guessing about 30 assorted AP/Ks, 30 smaller craft such as AMs and MLs, a few subs......nothing of note really. I guess half of that number will go down.

I can live with the DB losses, as the pilots were low exp, but those torp pilots going down really hurt. Just my luck that all the small unescorted raids consisted of the TBs, not the DBs.

So overall, a raid that promised much delivered little....never the less I fight on.

[USSAmerica]

Sorry it didn't pay off more, Miller.  Did your DB's execute actual dive bombing attacks from the 15k altitude you set them to?  I worried a bit about that when you posted it, because there's some wondering about the actual cutoff for dive/glide/level bombing with them.

[Miller]

Yes, the DBs went down to 2000ft (certain death against 100 ground units) and the TBs released at 3000ft........if I had known that would happen I would have scrubbed the mission.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Miller

Yes, the DBs went down to 2000ft (certain death against 100 ground units) and the TBs released at 3000ft........if I had known that would happen I would have scrubbed the mission.

Chin up, mate. You'll make up those airframe losses within a few months (probably before his Essexes slip out) and you should be able to form well-trained TB and DB cadres by then too. In the meantime, he has a number of ships that won't ever be coming back.

I assume that you're doing the 'general reserve' technique for bringing the trained pilots into your DB and TB units one at a time?

VP-wise, it's probably a push in the grand scheme of things for you. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, eh? Regroup, rearm, retrain and get after 'im again in a few months.

[topeverest]

Planes are replaceable, Carriers are not. You'll have another crack at him. Your naval forces are intact.

[Miller]

That is true. I should be able to get the fighter and TB units up to an average exp of 70 across the board in a few weeks, I am pulling a lot of veterans from Betty units and turning them into training groups, they never seem to attack anyway, or if they do they get lost or the escort does not show and they get killed en masse.

The DB units on the other hand are a mess, I think I would need three months just to get them combat capable, and his Essexs will be on the scene by then. He will have to come at me sooner or later, lets hope I'm as ready as I can be when the time comes.

[topeverest]

While I am still curious to using CV assets in the confined waters of you will fight in, if he finally comes in such strength as you predict, it will be the defining point in the rest of the game. His entire invasion forces will be exposed as he moves and approaches his target. If ever there will be a time to throw everything you have at him, it will be as he invades and commits. You will have the advantage in that nailbiter.

Good hunting.

[Cathartes]

Miller, from what I read you set your DBs to 15K feet, which means the went into a dive and released at 2,000'. The flack chewed them up nicely, but you probably got more hits then you would have if you went a glide bombing.

[Miller]

To be honest the outcome of the DEI area actions will only decide if the game ends in 44 or 45. I would like to think I can make him pay heavily for each base he takes, and the cease fire we have in China means I can pull ground and air units from this area (that I have paid PP for) and into the grinder down south.

However I think it will be at least two months gametime before it really begins to heat up.....time I need to get more units trained up and/or in position!

[stldiver]

Miller,

Great attempt, better to try then not.

Couple of questions as to these uncordinated strikes.

1) Fighters and DB's and TB's were these all set to same altitude i.e all 15k?

2) Taskforce configurations, Were all Carriers in one large TF? or broken up into multiple TF's with less then 200 planes (memory tells me that use to be the magic number to give best cordination)

[kfmiller41]

Miller
 
Great try and as other have said if you did nothing he will simply roll over you in time. You may have slowed him down some anyway and you did put the idea in his head (if it wasn't already there) that you will strike at him if he gives you an opportunity. That tends to make most people just a little cautious.

[topeverest]

Miller,

Let me offer this suggestion for your pondering as you decide what to do next. It has been my repeated experience the remaining Jap mobile combat power after the game inflection point is best spent choosing the right one or two american invasions; positioning; and throwing everything at the point of invasion with no regard for losses. While there is considerable art to this form of counter-defense, the goal is to take as much of the enemy force down when they are weakest. You should not underestimate the ability of your forces to carry a victory even considerably outnumbered in ships and planes, especially if you can make contact befor the target base is lost. I have seen several outright victories during these invasions, and I know of no other means that can actually pull a time score victory.

Please keep us informed how your game evolves, as I certainly would like to learn other successful ways to successfully deploy Jap forces later in the game.