FOW on/off... from what I've tested

[Tatoune]

I think this is the greatest strategy game I ever played. But from now, I need answers cause I feel a bit disapointed from what I've tested. And btw, I did not found any thread on this, so here I am.

From the manual: FOW « When turned on, both players will receive incomplete or faulty messages and reports concerning enemy ship, troop, and air group damage, as well as limited data on enemy bases. If left off, all enemy units will be visible on the map at all times. »

Now, I play the Guadalcanal scenario to learn the game and I'm only on my 3rd turn with advanced weather and FOW. Based on my operational reports, there was several ennemy fleets spotted by my planes, so I've focused on those fleets trying to engage them with no success and even if one of the spotted fleet, 7 japanese ships, was 1 hex from my CV set 100% on search.

After several attemped reloading to try different recipe, I've decided to reload from the last day played and turned OFF the advanced weather and FOW and ran a turn just to see my CV in action. What a surprise, ALL the fleets supposed to be spotted were not there, I mean no one out of a dozen fleets supposed to be on the lower half of the map, and tracked from 2 days. Instead they were all at the upper half of the map. A completly different game... My first though... something is wrong... this is ridiculous cause so much work spent on analysing the operational reports. And why give my trace route of a fleet two days in a row if it's not true....?

From the operational report, none of the info is correct when set FOW on. And I can post the 2 reports FOW on/off if needed. You'll see 2 different games.

Does someone have a idea what's going on?

[Grfin Zeppelin]

The fleet you spoted, did it have an on map Icon ?

[medicff]

ORIGINAL: Tatoune

I think this is the greatest strategy game I ever played. But from now, I need answers cause I feel a bit disapointed from what I've tested. And btw, I did not found any thread on this, so here I am.

From the manual: FOW « When turned on, both players will receive incomplete or faulty messages and reports concerning enemy ship, troop, and air group damage, as well as limited data on enemy bases. If left off, all enemy units will be visible on the map at all times. »

Now, I play the Guadalcanal scenario to learn the game and I'm only on my 3rd turn with advanced weather and FOW. Based on my operational reports, there was several ennemy fleets spotted by my planes, so I've focused on those fleets trying to engage them with no success and even if one of the spotted fleet, 7 japanese ships, was 1 hex from my CV set 100% on search.

After several attemped reloading to try different recipe, I've decided to reload from the last day played and turned OFF the advanced weather and FOW and ran a turn just to see my CV in action. What a surprise, ALL the fleets supposed to be spotted were not there, I mean no one out of a dozen fleets supposed to be on the lower half of the map, and tracked from 2 days. Instead they were all at the upper half of the map. A completly different game... My first though... something is wrong... this is ridiculous cause so much work spent on analysing the operational reports. And why give my trace route of a fleet two days in a row if it's not true....?

From the operational report, none of the info is correct when set FOW on. And I can post the 2 reports FOW on/off if needed. You'll see 2 different games.

Does someone have a idea what's going on?

In addition to incomplete reports you might actually get a faulty report of your own tf in the area reported as the enemy. Did you have anything in the area?

[Tatoune]

@Grafin Zeppelin No, does that mean I canot rely on the report until the icon is on the map?

@medicff, yes my cv from 1 hex and my plane give me the info

[pompack]

I have had my own subs reported as enemy carriers more than once

It all depends on what the search pilots were drinking the night before [:D]

[Tatoune]

I did another test, after 1 more turn, now my SBD-3 and Avenger search 100% :start 180 End 290. Now they spoted submarine which is around 30 degree, and I can see the Sub icon. Why? They were not supposed to fly that way. I'm getting more and more confused

[tocaff]

Torpedo juice....that stuff will make you go blind.

[zace]

I did another test, after 1 more turn, now my SBD-3 and Avenger search 100% :start 180 End 290. Now they spoted submarine which is around 30 degree, and I can see the Sub icon. Why? They were not supposed to fly that way. I'm getting more and more confused

Was it within 4 hexes of the searching base?

Search is 360 degrees for the first 4 hexes.

[freeboy]

I understand, BUT u will LOVE fow when in pbem.. I sunk Kaga at leas t5 times!
FYI You will get better, more accurate reports as the game goes on and your pilots, skippers know there duties a little better....

[Tatoune]

ORIGINAL: zace

I did another test, after 1 more turn, now my SBD-3 and Avenger search 100% :start 180 End 290. Now they spoted submarine which is around 30 degree, and I can see the Sub icon. Why? They were not supposed to fly that way. I'm getting more and more confused

Was it within 4 hexes of the searching base?

Search is 360 degrees for the first 4 hexes.

Correct, my CV is 3 hex from the SS, and my planes are set max range (8). BTW what kind of rule is this, I dont get it. If I want my planes to go north, why do I get a 120 milles info from south? Does this have something to do with radar?

[Menser]

Zace
4 hexes from the searching base has 360 coverage?
I only read in the manual that concentrated searches have a higher probability of detection than a 360 search.
Where did you get that info from?

[zace]

board search....  There was a large discussion on it this past week.

I don't remember which forum or subforum it was in. Sorries

[Tatoune]

Sunk a ship 5 times??? What kind of report is this. In real life, when my boss ask me to do some reports, I try to make it the best way I can.

From my game, when my planes tells me 2 days in a row that there is 7 japanese ship around a point, and then without fow a realise there is nothing there, I call this big issue. And btw, the pilots got enough experience, so this should not be the problem.

[minnowguy]

I recall several episodes in _The First Team_ where search aircraft reported drifting barges and even stationary rocks as enemy task forces -- IIRC the USN even launched an alpha strike on the barge.  My guess is that many, many hapless whales and schools of big fish were attacked and reported by aircraft on ASW patrol.  When a pilot is looking for something it is human nature to "find" it given even the slightest excuse.

There were many cases on both sides when damaged carriers were reported as sunk.  This happened when hit reports were over-optimistic -- i.e. near misses reported as hits, near misses by bombs reported as torpedo hits, etc. -- and when multiple strikes on the same task force were reported or analyzed as strikes on different task forces.  Remember that much of the navigation was dead-reckoning, performed by pilots trying to fly at the same time as they juggled their maps and instruments and trying to apply less than perfect wind information.  Finally, an enemy task force moving at flank speed can cover a good bit of ocean between sighting reports.

Based on a good bit of reading about the historical air war in the Pacific, I think the FOW-influenced reports are pretty realistic. 

[Lifer]

Even though you may see the enemy TF on your screen, your planes won't attack until the detection level is high enough.  Basically you get a free look but no greater DL to go along with it.

[freeboy]

ok, sunk Kaga, my ships planes torpedo her, she sinks... or does she? I find out later I justscratched her up, or I sunk another ship and not Kaga... So, I may still see Kaga again... you are frustrated, BUT the not knowing gets beter when you can confirm kills and thisis much more art than science...
good luck

[PzB74]

Many unnecessary "fake" FOW reports in AE...some may be submarines but unless there is an actual TF icon on the map you should ignore the spotting reports as FOW.

[Grfin Zeppelin]

FOW is what makes this game better than others(among other things)No complete knowledge of whats going on adds so much to this game imo.

[Wirraway_Ace]

Ignore spotting reports that don't result in a high enough DT to place a TF symbol on the map.
 
Pay close attention to messages like, "TF22 snooped by enemy torpedo bomber". 

[Tatoune]

Ok I'm calm now. [8D] Even if I dont know much about historic of ww2, you did have some good explanation and I will keep this in my mind. Just a last comment, instead of reading:

"SBD-3 Dauntless sighting report: 7 Japanese ships at 117,134 near Auki, speed 11, Moving East"

it would be great to read:

"SBD-3 Dauntless sighting report: Maybe 7 Japanese ships at 117,134 near Auki, speed 11, Moving East"

until better DL, and then forget about the maybe. Just to make the difference about what is certain. Anyway, I understand fow now. Thank