Landing at Diamond Harbor, it looks to me like you can get stuck easily at Calcutta. You need to have at least 3 Divisions prepped for Calcutta and NOT Diamond Harbor (where you shouldn't face more than a Bde or so).
Chittagong is easier to get ashore, except for the CD gun unit there is nasty if you don't plan for that. It's not as "deep" as Calcutta, but I don't think in any case you will cut-off the units in NE India. They will escape. It's the ones in Burma that are in trouble.
The Shipwreck of Our Hopes: Japanese Side
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
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ny59giants
- Posts: 9902
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm
A Japanese BB is sunk
Jan 2: A BB is sunk! [:@]
ASW/Subs:
KX is still one hex due east of Camranh Bay as BB Hyuga makes her way again to finish repairs at the large shipyard at Kong Kong. She gets her second torpedo hit of the war. [X(]
I had BB Hyuga set to "meet and merge" with more escorts on her way to Hong Kong. In the afternoon she had headed back to Camranh Bay and runs over KX for the final time as she is hit with another 2 torpedoes and sunk.
I should have been more patient and sent the escorts back to base and reformed the TF before sending it out and used the "waypoints" to move 1 hex NE and stayed in a coastal hex to avoid KX.
Carriers:
KB2 is exactly midway between Makassar and Koepang (5 hexes from each).
Mini-KB is 2 SW of Ambon.
Malaya:
Taiping - 28th Gurkha Brigade is again the target of ground attacks. Some Zero sweep in to ensure the skies are clear. Over 50 Sally come in to hit the troops. Then, the remaining 29 Sally hit the RAF Base Force.
Singapore - 45 Lily hit the AF to prevent fort building.
Borneo/Java:
Batavia - Zero escort in 61 Nell/Betty to sink two AMc in port.
Brunei falls!
Philippines:
Bataan - Zero escort in Mabel to hit the AF. Sally and Lily come in unmolested. the afternoon attack by Betty from Takao hit the AF.
SRA (East):
Kendari - 9 Zero are on CAP over the base when 5(1) B-17D Fortress (appear to be from Soerabaja) attempt to hit the transports unloading supplies. xAK Keiyo Maru avoids being hit. A second wave of 4 B-17D Fortress miss xAK Kumagawa Maru (hopefully the zeros did just enough to ruin their aim).
Koepang - 7 Zero from Mini-KB operating just to the SW of Ambon sweep in to find 10(0) 75A-7 Hawk on CAP. In the afternoon, KB2 (which had moved one day east after hitting Soerabaja) sends in 34 Zero to escort in 23 Val to find 5(2) 75A-7 Hawk to sink xAK Egra with 7 bomb hits. 32 Zero are on CAP over KB2 when a surprise strike of 9(4) Fulmar II escorting in 32(20) SBD-3 Dauntless from the base. Both of these types are CV types moved to a shore AF. The SBDs are from CV Saratoga! [X(]
Notes/Plans:
I have the 38th Division one day march out of Singapore. The 14th Army will arrive at Bataan next turn (whenever we get the turn back [&:]). Thus, I will launch deliberate/shock attacks at both bases.
The DBs from Sara showed a total loss of 38 planes. Since this was FOW info, i would say that it will take two months to re-train those pilots to be able to be useful. That CV is effectively out of the war unless they want to use the TBs only.
The lose of a BB hurts and it shows that there are still more lessons to learn.
KB2 and Mini-KB will move due east of Lautem to support the landings.
ASW/Subs:
KX is still one hex due east of Camranh Bay as BB Hyuga makes her way again to finish repairs at the large shipyard at Kong Kong. She gets her second torpedo hit of the war. [X(]
I had BB Hyuga set to "meet and merge" with more escorts on her way to Hong Kong. In the afternoon she had headed back to Camranh Bay and runs over KX for the final time as she is hit with another 2 torpedoes and sunk.
I should have been more patient and sent the escorts back to base and reformed the TF before sending it out and used the "waypoints" to move 1 hex NE and stayed in a coastal hex to avoid KX. Carriers:
KB2 is exactly midway between Makassar and Koepang (5 hexes from each).
Mini-KB is 2 SW of Ambon.
Malaya:
Taiping - 28th Gurkha Brigade is again the target of ground attacks. Some Zero sweep in to ensure the skies are clear. Over 50 Sally come in to hit the troops. Then, the remaining 29 Sally hit the RAF Base Force.
Singapore - 45 Lily hit the AF to prevent fort building.
Borneo/Java:
Batavia - Zero escort in 61 Nell/Betty to sink two AMc in port.
Brunei falls!
Philippines:
Bataan - Zero escort in Mabel to hit the AF. Sally and Lily come in unmolested. the afternoon attack by Betty from Takao hit the AF.
SRA (East):
Kendari - 9 Zero are on CAP over the base when 5(1) B-17D Fortress (appear to be from Soerabaja) attempt to hit the transports unloading supplies. xAK Keiyo Maru avoids being hit. A second wave of 4 B-17D Fortress miss xAK Kumagawa Maru (hopefully the zeros did just enough to ruin their aim).
Koepang - 7 Zero from Mini-KB operating just to the SW of Ambon sweep in to find 10(0) 75A-7 Hawk on CAP. In the afternoon, KB2 (which had moved one day east after hitting Soerabaja) sends in 34 Zero to escort in 23 Val to find 5(2) 75A-7 Hawk to sink xAK Egra with 7 bomb hits. 32 Zero are on CAP over KB2 when a surprise strike of 9(4) Fulmar II escorting in 32(20) SBD-3 Dauntless from the base. Both of these types are CV types moved to a shore AF. The SBDs are from CV Saratoga! [X(]
Japanese Ships
BC Hiei
CV Shokaku
BC Kirishima
CV Amagi
CV Akagi
Notes/Plans:
I have the 38th Division one day march out of Singapore. The 14th Army will arrive at Bataan next turn (whenever we get the turn back [&:]). Thus, I will launch deliberate/shock attacks at both bases.
The DBs from Sara showed a total loss of 38 planes. Since this was FOW info, i would say that it will take two months to re-train those pilots to be able to be useful. That CV is effectively out of the war unless they want to use the TBs only.
The lose of a BB hurts and it shows that there are still more lessons to learn.
KB2 and Mini-KB will move due east of Lautem to support the landings.
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RE: A Japanese BB is sunk
Been waiting for Michael to Post on these topics:
1. Those SBDs were dropped off and the CV is somewhere. We suspect Perth perhaps... This is an interesting decision to move those planes there. I can understand not wanting to lose the CV but losing her aircraft is fairly serious too.
2. The lose of that BB SUCKS. Talk about doing what you don't want through orders. Frustrating to watch.
My KB movement put the CVs 8 hexes from Sydney and they didn't LAUNCH! Grrr... My Vals took off and sank an AKL. The cat-is-out-of-the-bag here but I decide, with executive advise, to move between Brisbane and Sydney to pick-off anything that try to flee south from Sydney while still planning a Port Attack. Might be a highly interesting round of action down there.
1. Those SBDs were dropped off and the CV is somewhere. We suspect Perth perhaps... This is an interesting decision to move those planes there. I can understand not wanting to lose the CV but losing her aircraft is fairly serious too.
2. The lose of that BB SUCKS. Talk about doing what you don't want through orders. Frustrating to watch.
My KB movement put the CVs 8 hexes from Sydney and they didn't LAUNCH! Grrr... My Vals took off and sank an AKL. The cat-is-out-of-the-bag here but I decide, with executive advise, to move between Brisbane and Sydney to pick-off anything that try to flee south from Sydney while still planning a Port Attack. Might be a highly interesting round of action down there.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: A Japanese BB is sunk
Yeah, that is a real loss. The modernized Ise's are the best of your old BB's, because unlike the Kongo's they've got respectable armour. The dutch subs can be a real pain.
Look forward to seeing how things go in that raid...
Look forward to seeing how things go in that raid...
RE: A Japanese BB is sunk
John,
If you look up my AAR Spam vs Saki its on page 2 now, I did the landing in India at Diamond harbor in March and was able to trap and kill off a lot of India forces. Thus slowing his reconquest which resulted in Japanese autovictory at the end of 42 with 4 to 1 plus score.
In my other game where I am allied my opponent did the exact same thing except he landed at Chitagong then dropped para's to cut the raillines to the NE (very smart on his part). Unfortunatly for him and fortunate for me, I had some units there (accidently in transit [8|]) which stopped the attempt to cutoff. I was aware of the danger due to what I did to Scott, so I quickly backed my units out by rail, and reset the new defensive line. Plus airlifted partials out of Burma so all was not lost.
Back to the original Spam vs Saki game, I landed at Diamond due to my opponent heavily guarding Chittagong I was able to advance out quickly but not able to take Calcutta due to 4x city defense plus his ability to rail in quickly, almost surrouding it I advanced out and cutoff and destroyed his armies to the east as I left only 2 divisions guarding calcutta. I can tell you the resources from the area just north flowed from there to Rangoon down to Singapore without me having to ship once I cleared all of Burma and the India territory to the east.
The resources alone plus destroyed troops make it worthwile. As Q-Ball my mention I was greatly overextended and open to attack but my navy had beaten the allied at sea, so that never materialized.
My other opponent was not able to bag many troops and has since been pushed out of India and back to Burma. Though he is still in a strong position on the map and in forces.
Good Luck, resources and trapping alone I highly recommend it.
If you look up my AAR Spam vs Saki its on page 2 now, I did the landing in India at Diamond harbor in March and was able to trap and kill off a lot of India forces. Thus slowing his reconquest which resulted in Japanese autovictory at the end of 42 with 4 to 1 plus score.
In my other game where I am allied my opponent did the exact same thing except he landed at Chitagong then dropped para's to cut the raillines to the NE (very smart on his part). Unfortunatly for him and fortunate for me, I had some units there (accidently in transit [8|]) which stopped the attempt to cutoff. I was aware of the danger due to what I did to Scott, so I quickly backed my units out by rail, and reset the new defensive line. Plus airlifted partials out of Burma so all was not lost.
Back to the original Spam vs Saki game, I landed at Diamond due to my opponent heavily guarding Chittagong I was able to advance out quickly but not able to take Calcutta due to 4x city defense plus his ability to rail in quickly, almost surrouding it I advanced out and cutoff and destroyed his armies to the east as I left only 2 divisions guarding calcutta. I can tell you the resources from the area just north flowed from there to Rangoon down to Singapore without me having to ship once I cleared all of Burma and the India territory to the east.
The resources alone plus destroyed troops make it worthwile. As Q-Ball my mention I was greatly overextended and open to attack but my navy had beaten the allied at sea, so that never materialized.
My other opponent was not able to bag many troops and has since been pushed out of India and back to Burma. Though he is still in a strong position on the map and in forces.
Good Luck, resources and trapping alone I highly recommend it.
Showa rules!
RE: A Japanese BB is sunk
Thank you Good Sir. Sounds llike you had a bit of fun doing all that.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: Choices
ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
The most important thing you can do, though the most difficult, is to kill alot of Allies warships, CVs preferably, but cruisers and DDs as well.
Agree thats why Ceylon and multiple operations is the most important to draw him out / and or defeat him . If he wont use him CVs you must punish him for it and attack him where not expected ( ey Sydney is good and Ceylon)
Underdog Fanboy
RE: Choices
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Sounds like a bold plan with good potential to me - but just to clarify, bklooste's plan doesn't include a move on Calcutta/Diamond Harbor?
Also, while you're giving thought to this offensive, give nearly an equal amount of thought to where you WANT the Allies to attack you when they finally go on the offensive in late '42 or early '43. In the place where you WANT them to attack you, create an appearance of weakness (up front) while crafting a nasty web of strong, interlocking bases just to the rear. That way, once the Allies really commit, they end up getting bogged down in a slow, grinding advance. In the places where you DON'T want them to attack you create the appearance of strength so that your opponents are persuaded to look elsewhere - to that deceptively weak area.
No , i think Calcutta and Diamond are too risky especially with the CD routine and the compulsary garrison there . Though cutting Calcutta of from the East and West may be a good idea while in your hook for Burma.
Underdog Fanboy
-
ny59giants
- Posts: 9902
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm
RE: Choices
PP usage for the rest of January is to buy out the 6 x tank rgt at Port Arthur and some of the support LCUs. Then, the 20th Division in Korea will be targeted.
Short hook - I would look at landing at Chittagong vs Diamond Harbor with a secondary at Akyab to have another base close by with para in follow up forces to be used asap. If the British/CommonWealth troops being either destroyed or pushed into China to starve. I'm for taking Calcutta area mainly to stall/push back the Allies in this area and gain whatever HI stockpile I can get from there.
Short hook - I would look at landing at Chittagong vs Diamond Harbor with a secondary at Akyab to have another base close by with para in follow up forces to be used asap. If the British/CommonWealth troops being either destroyed or pushed into China to starve. I'm for taking Calcutta area mainly to stall/push back the Allies in this area and gain whatever HI stockpile I can get from there.
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[/center]RE: Choices
SEE what I mean??? I shoot for the moon and get ALLLLLLL excited and pulls me back down....sigh...
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: Choices
ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
I would definitely not go Ceylon first. That will make the possibility of a landing at Diamond Harbor seem much more possible, and he may plan accordingly.
Right now it looks like you're not that interested in the Bay of Bengal; keep it that way, until you come in force. The "Hook" is much more effective if you catch the Allies by surprise, which means catching the defenses unprepared, and troops shoved forward into Burma.
Disagree in early 42 , agree after April.
1. India has nothing at this time just enough for Garrison + the nomal Burma force
2. DIamond Harbour may be too risky anway (CD guns and a high AV garrison force next door) , with Ceylon out of the picture he is less likely to put significant forces there. I preffer the smaller ports as most of the Calcutta forces are stuck as a garrsion ( the air field will be a major pain though). And can you support your offensive through the smaller ports.
3. The attack on Ceylon failing is ok if he commits too many forces ( not that he has them) . The goal is the ships. If he has all his units in Ceylon just take a port and invade India
4. Once his forces are in Burma ( which is happening now ) he will commit his forces , if he pulls them out and sits in Calcutta then my suggestion is to reinforce the South India diversion attack and he will loose most of India. Just like you NZ diversion. Remember he has few forces at this time. You then have a nasty garrison issue [:D] and Burma becomes India which is a nice war to have in early 42..
5. In both cases ( him reinforcing Calcutta) you will take Burma but with Ceylon you may get some Capital ships.
6. Ceylon will support your new Caladonia invasion by helping to cut of Oz a bit more.
7. Reinforcing Calcutta would be very risky unless he gives up Ceylon. ( not a good trade IMHO)
With his sig int you can make a complete invasion of India look very probable ( use your Manchurian divs) this would make reinforcing Calcutta very bad..as it would be sieged.
It comes down to a massive attack on Calcutta which he will prob know due to sig int or a number of smaller attacks which include Ceylon . The key is what size operation can you sustain through the smaller ports east ( or even West) of Calcutta , splitting his incomming forces with South India And Ceylon would seem less risky though more grand to me.
Underdog Fanboy
RE: Choices
Agree with Michael on Chitagong & Akyab vs Diamond harbour , I think a small hook will do but Ceylon and ships are more important ! Normally i wouldnt be this aggresisve but you need to pull his Head out ( CVs) before they get better planes this is not a normal mod and all his CVs teaming up in mid 42 is BAD.
Update.
Phase1:(Start Feb)
So some BBs on Pacific defence Pacific duties between Truk and Marshals.
Mini KB , Timor and Bataan forces ( +Maybe rabaul) + KB 1 tasked with Java and Darwin , Mini KB attacks and KB1 comes around behind Java to get the fleeing ships ( this can net you a LOT of ships i have seen 10 tankers and 10 APs and 30 or so AKs) and then help the landings. Once KB1 is spotted Mini KB heads to the pacific. ( with some Netties , Daities of Zeroes and the BBs it will be a decent force)
Burma forces go slow invading . ( as per Johns plan )
Singapore forces go to Ceylon with KB 2. Time is more important than preperation here.
Malay troops after clean up of Malaysia take Palambang
Darwin is taken
Phase 2 ( march to April)
John makes lots of noise forum about taking India is /should be possible and lots of unit prep for ports in India and Oz.
Malaya forces when Ceylon is taken quickly land at Chittagong & Akyab. Paras cut of the rail . Push into Burma is harder.
Evaluate a landing West of Calcutta to seige it and help the hooks supply.
landing in South india from Ceylon
Phase 3 ( Start ~June) pull most of the troops back and crush Southern and Northern China esp with the Burma supply issues. The allies wont have the troops yet to launch a major offensive ( esp after losses) though you could loose some places in the Pacific ( who cares ...) . Use Divisions in CHina to lead the attacks and once decimated buy them out . The idea is to take a lot of the forces out of China to make a nasty perimiter and to hurt him enough so he cant launch major offensives in CHna opeing the rail to Vietnam is also nice to ship resources and units around.
Update.
Phase1:(Start Feb)
So some BBs on Pacific defence Pacific duties between Truk and Marshals.
Mini KB , Timor and Bataan forces ( +Maybe rabaul) + KB 1 tasked with Java and Darwin , Mini KB attacks and KB1 comes around behind Java to get the fleeing ships ( this can net you a LOT of ships i have seen 10 tankers and 10 APs and 30 or so AKs) and then help the landings. Once KB1 is spotted Mini KB heads to the pacific. ( with some Netties , Daities of Zeroes and the BBs it will be a decent force)
Burma forces go slow invading . ( as per Johns plan )
Singapore forces go to Ceylon with KB 2. Time is more important than preperation here.
Malay troops after clean up of Malaysia take Palambang
Darwin is taken
Phase 2 ( march to April)
John makes lots of noise forum about taking India is /should be possible and lots of unit prep for ports in India and Oz.
Malaya forces when Ceylon is taken quickly land at Chittagong & Akyab. Paras cut of the rail . Push into Burma is harder.
Evaluate a landing West of Calcutta to seige it and help the hooks supply.
landing in South india from Ceylon
Phase 3 ( Start ~June) pull most of the troops back and crush Southern and Northern China esp with the Burma supply issues. The allies wont have the troops yet to launch a major offensive ( esp after losses) though you could loose some places in the Pacific ( who cares ...) . Use Divisions in CHina to lead the attacks and once decimated buy them out . The idea is to take a lot of the forces out of China to make a nasty perimiter and to hurt him enough so he cant launch major offensives in CHna opeing the rail to Vietnam is also nice to ship resources and units around.
Underdog Fanboy
RE: Choices
re Manchuria and home islands i wouldnt buy the armour yet ...My list in order would be
1. redeployable CD guns [:D] ( though it can wait a few months)
2. Air support and Daitai especially recon / Nav search capable.
3. 75mm+ AA guns
4. Heavy Art
5. Armour
6. Art & high exp infantry.
1. redeployable CD guns [:D] ( though it can wait a few months)
2. Air support and Daitai especially recon / Nav search capable.
3. 75mm+ AA guns
4. Heavy Art
5. Armour
6. Art & high exp infantry.
Underdog Fanboy
RE: 1-3-42
Hmm I see alot of people on here claiming that (atleast it sounds that way) that taking Chittagong will be easy...
In my ongoing games, I would just love to see the Japanese land a few div's in Chittagong. That way I would not need to worry about their location, and I have them trapped.
Something I would keep in mind;
-those Brit fighters are a pain to Oscars and Zeroes
-the Allies will have several AFs to base their fighters at
-look at the reports, are the bases on the line Chittagong-Ledo being developed as far as you can tell?
-recons, do they show the Allies staying in Burma?
-if you (your enemies that would be) take their time to really go over the forces in India, you will be surprised just how many AVs can be freed up by relocating in the interior.
-If the enemy is preparing to run from Burma, you will need to cut the line Chittagon-Ledo FAST. The raillines in Burma means that the enemy will have their forces at the dot-base NE of Schwebo in a few days if they are ready to flee, and that transform into quite a few AVs heading towards the mentioned line.
-how about mines?
-for the future, the dot-base NW of Imphal becomes an excellent AF if developed, it is at 0/7 at the start I believe.
I think the plan might work well, and if successful will net you alot of PoWs, but it should not be considered an easy task in any regards, and you will need to make sure you bring enough forces.
Just my two cents, so feel more than free to completely disregard/laugh at what I've said [;)]
Going to be fun to see how this evolves!
Terje
In my ongoing games, I would just love to see the Japanese land a few div's in Chittagong. That way I would not need to worry about their location, and I have them trapped.
Something I would keep in mind;
-those Brit fighters are a pain to Oscars and Zeroes
-the Allies will have several AFs to base their fighters at
-look at the reports, are the bases on the line Chittagong-Ledo being developed as far as you can tell?
-recons, do they show the Allies staying in Burma?
-if you (your enemies that would be) take their time to really go over the forces in India, you will be surprised just how many AVs can be freed up by relocating in the interior.
-If the enemy is preparing to run from Burma, you will need to cut the line Chittagon-Ledo FAST. The raillines in Burma means that the enemy will have their forces at the dot-base NE of Schwebo in a few days if they are ready to flee, and that transform into quite a few AVs heading towards the mentioned line.
-how about mines?
-for the future, the dot-base NW of Imphal becomes an excellent AF if developed, it is at 0/7 at the start I believe.
I think the plan might work well, and if successful will net you alot of PoWs, but it should not be considered an easy task in any regards, and you will need to make sure you bring enough forces.
Just my two cents, so feel more than free to completely disregard/laugh at what I've said [;)]
Going to be fun to see how this evolves!
Terje
"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen
("She is to be torpedoed!")
("She is to be torpedoed!")
RE: 1-3-42
terje439
is this in Jan-Feb 42 though ?
Not sure whether you really want those big air bases they may be used against you later.
is this in Jan-Feb 42 though ?
Not sure whether you really want those big air bases they may be used against you later.
Underdog Fanboy
RE: 1-3-42
It is a two-edged sword. Anything we take and build-up WILL be used against us later...
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: 1-3-42
ORIGINAL: bklooste
terje439
is this in Jan-Feb 42 though ?
Not sure whether you really want those big air bases they may be used against you later.
I started freeing up AV from the interior in Dec, and by Feb I believe I had something like 600 AV and alot of artillery ready in Chittagong (which of course also include units shipped in from Aden). Remember that Chittagong is rail-linked with the rest of India.
And I had fully extracted my Burma forces within 10 days after the Japanese stood outside Rangoon (but then again I never intended to stick around in Burma).
Terje
"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen
("She is to be torpedoed!")
("She is to be torpedoed!")
RE: A Japanese BB is sunk
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Been waiting for Michael to Post on these topics:
1. Those SBDs were dropped off and the CV is somewhere. We suspect Perth perhaps... This is an interesting decision to move those planes there. I can understand not wanting to lose the CV but losing her aircraft is fairly serious too.
It cleary shows the intent - wait till the newer planes come and protect the CVs tills then . Loosing the planes wont be too bad as over a home port he will get most of his pilots back and the planes are waiting to upgrade anyway.
Underdog Fanboy
RE: A Japanese BB is sunk
The planes were over our TF abot 200 miles from Koepang. They're DOA! 
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.