Suggestion: single hex island options

[gwgardner]

ORIGINAL: jomni


...and the stacking restrictions. One land or air unit per land hex does not encourage historical island hopping strategy. Why will I bother taking an island where I can't put air units?

I propose either:

1) that a one-hex island have an intrinsic air recon, attack and defense, based upon either the size of fortifications or port. Any enemy force that approaches the island suffers a chance of being detected and attacked. Any enemy force that attacks by air has a chance of being intercepted.

2) Alternatively, what if they added a new feature, whereby a land unit can convert itself into a fortification/defense SP (or multiple thereof). Then you could take an island, convert the unit to the intrinsic land defense fortification (with associated SP) and then base some aircraft there.

[PDiFolco]

Really, this limitation shrugs me off buying the game.. Most of the Pacwar makes no sense if you can't use small islands (like Midway...) as air bases, and with some garrison...
I'd propose the reverse from your 1st suggestion, ie give all air unit an intrisic garrison value, which increase with fort level.

[Razz1]

You can.

I do it all the time.

Just land an air unit on the island. It's not that strong in defense. Gets killed easily but you can use the air unit to sink ships.

Besides.. Have you seen pictures of Midway?

Not much room for 15,000 troops, barracks etc...

Not much room for an airfield. You can damn near throw a stone to the other side of the island.

[Anraz]

Let me remind that air units can defend against land units so they act as weak garrison.

[PDiFolco]

ORIGINAL: Razz

You can.

I do it all the time.

Just land an air unit on the island. It's not that strong in defense. Gets killed easily but you can use the air unit to sink ships.

Besides.. Have you seen pictures of Midway?

Not much room for 15,000 troops, barracks etc...

Not much room for an airfield. You can damn near throw a stone to the other side of the island.

There was an airstrip at Midway, 60 planes or so...approx a CV capacity, that's what made it worthwhile !

[Peter123]

As Anraz stated, wen you put an air unit in an island, you are puting also a land garrison.

And by changing this line in the consts.csv file:

"#Air unit effective strength when attacked by land unit (float);;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
0.2;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;"

you can make these garrisons as strong as one division, one corps, or indestructible; so I dont see any problem here.

[vonRocko]

ORIGINAL: Peter123



And by changing this line in the consts.csv file:

"#Air unit effective strength when attacked by land unit (float);;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
0.2;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;"

you can make these garrisons as strong as one division, one corps, or indestructible; so I dont see any problem here.

Easy for you, but some of us don't know how (or want to) to change files.

[doomtrader]

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

ORIGINAL: Peter123



And by changing this line in the consts.csv file:

"#Air unit effective strength when attacked by land unit (float);;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
0.2;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;"

you can make these garrisons as strong as one division, one corps, or indestructible; so I dont see any problem here.

Easy for you, but some of us don't know how (or want to) to change files.

Currently in my spare time I'm working on a modding tutorial.
http://forum.wastelands-interactive.com ... php?t=2723

Issues to follow are:
Scenario files
Land units
Air units
Naval units
Loading land units
Events - basics
Events - basic with details


I think there shouldn't be a problem to write few words about editing general modifiers for the game.

[gwgardner]

ORIGINAL: Peter123

As Anraz stated, wen you put an air unit in an island, you are puting also a land garrison.

And by changing this line in the consts.csv file:

"#Air unit effective strength when attacked by land unit (float);;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
0.2;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;"

you can make these garrisons as strong as one division, one corps, or indestructible; so I dont see any problem here.

Trouble with upping that .2 to perhaps 1.0, is that any losses that unit takes BY LAND are ignored. So that every time you hit it by land, it is automatically a strength of 1.0. Making the unit invulnerable by land. Am I reading that line wrong in the consts.csv?

[Texican]

ORIGINAL: Razz

You can.

I do it all the time.

Just land an air unit on the island. It's not that strong in defense. Gets killed easily but you can use the air unit to sink ships.

Besides.. Have you seen pictures of Midway?

Not much room for 15,000 troops, barracks etc...

Not much room for an airfield. You can damn near throw a stone to the other side of the island.

They put 3,000 elite Marine Raiders on Midway before the battle. I'd think a force like that would fight as well, defensively, as an infantry division.

No, they need to have air stackable with land; that change needs to happen.

[jomni]

Yeah know that air can defend against land attacks via a built-in garrison but if you want to make the island a base of operations for the next island hopping campaign, you would like to put a corps of combat troops there as well. Now, it's just one or the other.

[Peter123]

Yeah know that air can defend against land attacks via a built-in garrison but if you want to make the island a base of operations for the next island hopping campaign, you would like to put a corps of combat troops there as well. Now, it's just one or the other.

If you realy need that, I sugest u to edit the map:

1: add another land hex to the island to place the air unit
2: make it inaccesible by sea (no sea zone), so any landing must first fight against your land units
3: put an appropriate eyecandy over the new land hex

I havent tried so realy dont know how will work that.

[gwgardner]

ORIGINAL: Peter123

I sugest u to edit the map:

1: add another land hex to the island to place the air unit
2: make it inaccesible by sea (no sea zone), so any landing must first fight against your land units
3: put an appropriate eyecandy over the new land hex

That would be an appropriate alternative as far as I'm concerned. But make it default. Not something I have to mod. For every one-hex island that was historically capable of having an airfield, then make it a two-hex island.

[jomni]

Why not just make air stacking possible instead of some workarounds. [;)]

[Peter123]

I dont like stacking.
Real maps havent stacking
Without stacking I see situation at first glance
Im tired of checking hundreds of stacked units
I like to focus on tactics, not management
[;)]

[Razz1]

Well you can not please everyone.

I my self would like air to stack or a two hex island but an air unit defending is ok.

Go ahead and look at a real picture of Midway. Google Earth or the Wiki and you see that having 10 to 15k troops with an air field is really impossible.

[Richard III]

I don`t think anyone here is asking to stack, as you can in WitP, a 10,000+ LCU with an air unit on an coral atoll like Midway, or Wake, or Tarawa or Beato, but modding an air unit to have high defensive values against a ground attack is just wrong and doesn`t feel right in this Game at all.......[:-]

[Razz1]

Currently it is not a high defense value.

If you make it high it is high everywhere, then when you attack a air unit on the ground it always wins.

Remember everybody thinks a little differently when it comes to exploits or gamey tactics.

If you buy the game you can do what you want it is yours.

I agree with you Richard, but remember others have different opinions.

[Peter123]

but modding an air unit to have high defensive values against a ground attack is just wrong and doesn`t feel right in this Game at all.......

Its not modding an air unit, but the way all air units defend themselves to make the game to behave the way you likes.

Yeah know that air can defend against land attacks via a built-in garrison but if you want to make the island a base of operations for the next island hopping campaign, you would like to put a corps of combat troops there as well. Now, it's just one or the other.

I can have loaded fleets at the port, thats enough for me.

Trouble with upping that .2 to perhaps 1.0, is that any losses that unit takes BY LAND are ignored. So that every time you hit it by land, it is automatically a strength of 1.0. Making the unit invulnerable by land. Am I reading that line wrong in the consts.csv?

Right, but that doesnt make them invulnerable. 1.0 is the default I utilize in TOW and air units are destroyed even by 3:1 land attacs. Anyway, you can give them the strenght you likes more.

That would be an appropriate alternative as far as I'm concerned. But make it default. Not something I have to mod. For every one-hex island that was historically capable of having an airfield, then make it a two-hex island.

Remember that the AI may not discern between airbase hexes and island exes.

Why not just make air stacking possible instead of some workarounds

Well, I dont kow about programming, but it may well require a complete rebuild of the code.

[HR2]

Another thing about air is on land larger than one hex island.
While it may have a defense it doesn't stand up to attack.
Unless you surround the air unit with inf..thats 6 hexes which is undoable with the number of units in play, it dies,

That means no air unit at port moseby (it died to open hex attack) or Port Darwin where the japansese invaded. I had a inf in the city and two more next to it and then an air unit, which also died quickly.

So they have to be put totally out of harms way. Not historical and Port Moseby had considerable air.
Stacking would seem the way to go as upping air defense across the board is too much.