"Battle for Moscow 1941-1943"

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

I have the German original series of your "Germany and the Second World War" and in another chapter in Volume 4 the supply situation for HG Mitte was mentioned and that when the frost started 70-80% of the German locomotives got damage because of outside laying cooling pipes that simply burst because of the extreme low temperatures in Russia, I'm not sure if they resolved the problem over the course of the winter but at least for the first frost period that comes in a lowering of the German rail capacity to 2500 and after temperatures get better a slow recovery sound appropriate.

The Russian climate was a severe handicap to operations by the Germans. Russian locomotives
had extra insulation around the boilers to deal with extreme cold. German locomotives did not
and lost excessive amounts of energy during cold weather. The Germans encountered many
other problems, too. The coal mined in the Donbas would not work in German locomotives
unless mixed with some high-grade German coal or oil. Steam locomotives required a system of
water towers and equipment for loading coal into tenders. The Soviets destroyed trackside
structures when they retreated, severely handicapping German operation of the lines. Such
problems pointed out the difficulty of rail operation in the hostile Russian climate.

The Soviet Economy and the Red Army, 1930-1945
Walter S. Dunn, Jr.

[briantopp]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Hey looks great.
What I would like to know is when does the What-if part start? I mean at the start the frontline & units there look like a historical setup.

Will Soviet offensives in 1941 at HG Nord & Süd occur or will those forces used historically there be available at Moskau?

The what-if starts on turn 1, with a theater option to transfer 29th and 30th corps from AGN at a steep victory point cost. You're right that otherwise the set-up is historical.

Next what-if is in November or so, when the Axis must decide whether to keep pressing on to Moscow or to pause for the winter and resume the campaign in the spring.

The critical "what-if" then plays out over the winter of 1942 and then the fall of 1942 -- when something does not happen. Axis armour and infantry remain in this theater, and so there are no transfers of armour and infantry units to AGS to set up "Operation Blau". Similarly, the centre of gravity of Soviet reinforcement remains here, and is not transferred to Stalingrad. In other words, the battle the general staff wanted to wage, and that Stavka expected to wage, occurs.

The Soviet offensives in AGN/AGS are assumed to take place and to be dealt with by those army groups within their existing resources (give or take the 29th/30th corps VP) -- so the game effect is to limit reinforcements here in AGC.

[briantopp]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

I have the German original series of your "Germany and the Second World War" and in another chapter in Volume 4 the supply situation for HG Mitte was mentioned and that when the frost started 70-80% of the German locomotives got damage because of outside laying cooling pipes that simply burst because of the extreme low temperatures in Russia, I'm not sure if they resolved the problem over the course of the winter but at least for the first frost period that comes in a lowering of the German rail capacity to 2500 and after temperatures get better a slow recovery sound appropriate.

Good -- a very helpful piece of chrome that will keep the Axis from being ahistorically effective in nov-dec 1941. I'll add that.

[sPzAbt653]

Up to turn 27 and having fun. Thanks for the nice scenario. I think the 30th Corp was infantry, and the 39th was a panzer corp. Lots of blank news events. Should 11th panzer have the 111-shutzen, not the 113th? Axis rail repair is 25 per turn - maybe too high? Maybe a 2 turn ahead notice for 1st Cav withdrawal (some of us don't monitor these things and rely on the news, and 1 turn is a little scary).

Thanks again!

[briantopp]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Up to turn 27 and having fun. Thanks for the nice scenario. I think the 30th Corp was infantry, and the 39th was a panzer corp. Lots of blank news events. Should 11th panzer have the 111-shutzen, not the 113th? Axis rail repair is 25 per turn - maybe too high? Maybe a 2 turn ahead notice for 1st Cav withdrawal (some of us don't monitor these things and rely on the news, and 1 turn is a little scary).

Thanks again!

The "29th" and "30th" corps are placeholder numbers while I looked up plausible ones (I think the divisions are correct). Maybe I'll use those (30th and 39th).

Blank news events: erk. Probably experimental events I turned off.

11th panzer: yep, you're right (Mitcham in "German Order of Battle" agrees with you).

Two-turn notice: good point.

25 rail repair. Yes might be generous. I set it high when first setting up this scenario basically as a placeholder number to not have to worry about it much. But perhaps 10 would be closer to the mark.

[briantopp]

Turn 4, end of combat round 2, 16th army.

16th army has broken cleanly through the Soviet rive defence line at Valday and is pressing towards Bologoye. The objective is the airbase there, and to cut off the rail line between Bologoye and Ostaskoy, hopefully thereby cutting off supply to the various Kalinin Front units holding positions west and southwest of Lake Selinger.

[briantopp]

Turn 5, combat round 5, 16th army. 16th army has broken the next NW Front line and crossed the rail line at several points.

[briantopp]

Turn 6, first combat round, 16th army. 16th army is approaching the Axis stop line (the extreme outer limits of Axis logistics in this scenario) to the north, and is pressing towards Volochek. Depending on events to the south, and given how few units it has to work with, 16th army is probably not going to advance much further -- instead looking for a defensible line. This will hopefully anchor the left flank of the whole Axis position.

[briantopp]

Turn 4, end of combat round 2, 29+30th corps: These emergency reserves (which are really functioning like another army in this playthrough) are finishing the break-up of a screen put up by Kalinin Front west of Rhzev. A recc unit has gone to take a look at the Ryzev defenses and finds the area lightly held.

[briantopp]

Turn 5, combat round 5, 29-30th corps: The Kalinin Front screen west of Rhzev was destroyed. 29/30th corps probed the Rhzev defenses and found them very weakly held -- and so blitzed them, even though some of its divisions were very low on supply and manpower. By round 5 of turn 5, the corps have taken Rhzev (attacking it from the east with a panzer division) and have almost finished destroying the rest of the defense system.

[briantopp]

Turn 6, first combat round, 29-30th corps: With Rhzev all but taken, 29-30th corps turns to its next objective - Kalinin. A recc unit finds nothing standing between Rhzev and the city. Infantry and armour are on the move east. Moscow is coming into sight, at the extreme southeast of this screencapture.

[briantopp]

Turn 4, combat round 2, 9th and 4th armies: 9th and 4th armies now need to destroy the pocket in front of them and get to the front line, far to the east, as quickly as possible. Both armies open up on the encircled Soviet forces before them. 9th army cuts its opponent to pieces but it remains standing. 4th army's opponents completely disintegrate -- by this combat round, they are all annihilated. Meanwhile, to the east 3rd and 4th panzer groups are mopping up and looking to solidify the front.

[briantopp]

Turn 5, combat round 5, 9th and 4th armies: Another few kicks and 9th army also destroys the Soviet forces before it. 9th and 4th armies then reorganize (getting divisions as close to their corps HQs as possible) and advance to the east. In this screen capture both armies are arriving to help finish the cleanup closer to the front, and to relieve panzer units on the front line. 3rd panzer will reconsolidate to the north aiming at Gzhatsk and then Borodino. 4th panzer group will reorganize to the south and aim at Kaluga.

[briantopp]

Turn 6, combat round 1, 9th and 4th armies: 9th and 4th armies have replaced 3rd and 4th panzer groups in the centre of the line, and largely finished cleaning-up Soviet units isolated behind the line (the fortified position to the west of Vyasma has surprisingly difficult and expensive to crack. Although the units were surrounded they appear to have been supplied). 3rd panzer group is beginning its advance on Yolokolansk and Borodino. 4th panzer group is almost reorganized for a push through Kaluga, although the distances involved in this reconsolidation of the panzer group mean this advance won't start seriously until turn 7. I may be being a little too deliberate in my advance here.

In the near future it will be time to make this scenario's big decision: to go for Moscow in 1941, or to wait for spring 1942?

At a minimum, I want to possess the entire fortified line (the "Mozhaisk position") shown in this screen capture to provide the central position for a defensive line. I can hope to hold it with infantry, positioning a panzer group to its north and another to its south to hopefully destroy Soviet reinforcements in mobile battles during the winter.

If I do decide to press onto Moscow I obviously have to get through and beyond that line.

[briantopp]

Turn 4, end of combat round 2, 2nd army: 2nd army, assisted by half of 2nd panzer group, is grinding away at an army from Soviet western front and most of Bryansk front, which has been pocketed. As occured historically, the reduction of this pocket is taking a lot of time, and is preventing 2nd panzer group from resuming its advance. So the goal here is to extract 2nd panzer group from this fight as quickly as possible. 2nd army needs to finish the job and then advance southeast to help screen the gigantic open right flank of the German advance.

[briantopp]

Turn 5, combat round 5, 2nd army: Soviet forces around Bryansk have largely disintegrated, allowing 2nd panzer group to pull its corps out of this fight and back onto the roads. 2nd army still has a big job to do dealing with the Bryansk Front pocket, and not many divisions to do it with. Furthermore, all of them are needed as soon as possible to the east.

[briantopp]

Turn 6, end of first combat round: Slow progress in being made cleaning up the situation. Guderian has extracted his panzers but is on the phone yelling about his flank.

[briantopp]

Turn 4, end of combat round 2, 2nd panzer group: A panzer division and a mixed force of army units are advancing on Kursk on the extreme right of the German position. Much of 2nd panzer group is engaged in the Bryansk pocket, and so only three units are forward, probing carefully north and northeast of Orel.

[briantopp]

Turn 5, combat round 5, 2nd panzer group: 2nd panzer group has finally extracted itself from the battle around the Bryansk pocket, but its units have moved as far as they will this turn. The spearpoint of the panzer group therefore continues to kick its heels north and northeast of Orel. The mixed force on the right flank has taken Kursk -- and has also bumped into a defensive line put up by Soviet Voronezh Front.

[briantopp]

Turn 6, end of first combat round, 2nd panzer group: Moving south to north:

- The mixed force at Kursk has sent a recc unit around the Voronezh Front screen to probe it and see if it can be surrounded. Looks like it can.

- A weak luftwaffe division has arrived and will be used to screen a section of this huge open flank.

- A couple of exhausted divisions from 2nd army are arriving and will also be pressed into service on the open right flank. Hopefully they'll recover before being tested again.

- The centre of gravity of 2nd panzer group has resumed its advance to the northeast. Recc units probe forward. Nothing much seems to lie between 2nd panzer group and Tula, at the top right of this screen capture.

- 2nd panzer group is now in contact with 4th panzer group to the north, around Belev.