Holy cow John Tiller has gone digital: Kharkov 43

[papajack]

If they are smart , they can always release Digital Download at $29.90

Low profit but big volume of sales ...

and since they are releasing older titles , most of the profit has been made

Bundles release will be a good idea as well

Joint venture with Matrixgames will be the best    

[junk2drive]

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: junk2drive
Maybe we are just spoiled by Matrix/Slitherine requiring all their devs to show up and post. And guys like Erik and Iain and Chris from NWS checking other forums and posting there too.

Wargaming is a funny business - normally you'd expect the smaller companies to be more user-friendly than the 800 Lb gorilla one, but here it's almost the reverse.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Matrix just posted their second live chat with a dev in about a week.

[Adam Parker]

John Tiller Software Website

There's been an open letter there from John to the public wishing HPS well for some days now [8|]

If you want John to be even more available to you, why not write and ask him?

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: junk2drive
Maybe we are just spoiled by Matrix/Slitherine requiring all their devs to show up and post. And guys like Erik and Iain and Chris from NWS checking other forums and posting there too.

Wargaming is a funny business - normally you'd expect the smaller companies to be more user-friendly than the 800 Lb gorilla one, but here it's almost the reverse.

Matrix just posted their second live chat with a dev in about a week.

Yeah, on top of that : they actually listened and also did a WitE chat in a time-slot more convenient for Europeans and it wasn't just the developer, the whole beta-bunny brigade was there to answer questions.

Maybe there's a good reason Matrix grew from a no-name startup publisher to the 800 Lb gorilla in under a decade ...

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

John Tiller Software Website

There's been an open letter there from John to the public wishing HPS well for some days now [8|]

If you want John to be even more available to you, why not write and ask him?

I'll be glad to.

Please point out *where* on that website I can find either his email address or a business address for a nice paper letter.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Adam Parker]

Sure - I'd try this. Best of luck. What a great day ahead. I'm really looking forward to War in the East [:)]

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Sure - I'd try this. Best of luck. What a great day ahead. I'm really looking forward to War in the East [:)]

I asked for his email address or his business address and I get a web form ???

You do know the difference I hope.

But we all know what my point was : here we have a developer who is clearly keeping his fans as far away as humanly possible, hosts no forum, doesn't even have a public email address and who clearly has no time or patience or inclination to talk to gamers, yet basically says : "DRM ? no worries - trust me with your $40"

On what planet does this work ?

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

I asked for his email address or his business address and I get a web form ???

You do know the difference I hope.

Have a nice day Eddy.

[sabre1]

Eddy,

Check out Arcengames AI Wars forum. The developer is on there regularly answering questions. Best support I have ever seen for a new game company.

Of course the reason? He doesn't work for the government. [;)]

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: sabre1

Eddy,

Check out Arcengames AI Wars forum. The developer is on there regularly answering questions. Best support I have ever seen for a new game company.

Of course the reason? He doesn't work for the government. [;)]

That's Chris Park. I've dealt with him personally and he is one of a kind. Excellent guy. He stands behind his games, and builds them right too. His lack of DRM has gained him a following like Matrix. Just a serial number and you are on your own. The way it should be. [8D]

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

I asked for his email address or his business address and I get a web form ???

You do know the difference I hope.

Have a nice day Eddy.

I sure will ! and remember : when that activation server goes down and your game becomes unplayable you can always send a mail to complain about it to me, because unlike some developer I should trust with my money, I'm always available for my "fans" [;)]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: sabre1
Check out Arcengames AI Wars forum.

I have. Interested, but not biting yet.

This whole thing was just a bit of sillyness on my part in order to get the point across to some
people that they're standing on DRM quicksand yet proclaim in here it's terra firma one can trust.

I like business transactions that are not based on trust. I give you my $50, you give me a game I can install and re-install as much as I like.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[E]

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

This whole thing was just a bit of sillyness on my part in order to get the point across to some
people that they're standing on DRM quicksand yet proclaim in here it's terra firma one can trust.

DRM is inherently based on mistrust. But what a large part of the thread concerns is the ability to talk to him directly and I wouldn't boycott Tiller just because I can't speak to him directly. Or from some strange idea that he lost his ability to program because he's working under a different banner (AGAIN!) and must prove himself by hanging out in forums.

But I am boycotting Tiller because of this kind of DRM. I will not knowingly* have my future retro-gaming abilities impinged upon by a need for the internet and/or a need for a company to continue to exist for decades.

* I did get caught once by pre-ordering CMSF before there was any mention of theirs.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: E
DRM is inherently based on mistrust.

Correct.

ORIGINAL: E
But what a large part of the thread concerns is the ability to talk to him directly and I wouldn't boycott Tiller just because I can't speak to him directly.

When a developer clearly indicates he doesn't trust his customers and insists on keeping the keys to the gaming kingdom under his control, it becomes important for the customers to find out if the developer himself can be trusted. That's where things like accessibility to him, or his presence in forums becomes an issue.

I don't think it's a coincidence that there's a high correlation between companies with reps that are easily accessible and have a relaxed copy protection attitude. Trust works both ways you know.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[E]

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

When a developer clearly indicates he doesn't trust his customers and insists on keeping the keys to the gaming kingdom under his control, it becomes important for the customers to find out if the developer himself can be trusted.

Except in this case, this developer has proven himself trustworthy by continuously updating games he didn't have to, for the past decade. Yes, he did cut the strings on earlier works that happen to appears here at Matrix. But that is still quite a track record of trust-ability. What I distrust is Murphy's Law, much more than Tiller "holding the keys." It's not as if Tiller is some young upstart who maybe did a single game elsewhere. Besides, he's never held "the keys" ...in reality, it's been the cookie cutter! *grin*

What I'd really like to know is why did he feel the need to go to such a harsh DRM (and alienate customers such as myself, from a purchase). And sheerly out of curiosity... was it really the cause of his departure from HPS, as has been conjectured?

[BAL]

Nothing like a "bash a competitor" thread to bring out the usual group of matrix bootlickers.

Very classy [:-]

[junk2drive]

You might be correct if there wasn't a valid point to the bashing.

[tevans6220]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

John Tiller Software Website

There's been an open letter there from John to the public wishing HPS well for some days now [8|]

If you want John to be even more available to you, why not write and ask him?

I can tell you why I don't. First of all I don't know how to get in touch with him. But most importantly it's because he needs my business. I don't need him. This website self-publish thing is a new business venture for him and he should personally be promoting it. Not by a letter on a website or by private email but by personally interacting with customers and potential customers on the various forums that act as support forums for his products. If he can't be bothered to do that then he doesn't deserve my business.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Several pages here, even more at Wargamer, it's being discussed at ACG and god only knows how many other wargamer haunts.

The consensus is almost 100% negative and I don't think we can call it 'bashing' at this point. John has made the WRONG choice.

Matrix Games has shown what is possible, and if John wishes to disagree, well that's the thrill of a free country eh.

I'm an impulse buyer, I wonder how many of the rest of you guys have made impulse digital downloads you might not have made, if the game wasn't so easy to get. But additionally, how many will be buying from Matrix Games Gary's War in the East on impulse today (assuming it does arrive today).
And how much of that is because there are no draw backs to the purchase. Installer and serial and no strings attached.
It's a form of DRM yes, but it's one where no one buying really needs to even care about. The only people at risk, are thieves getting locked out of updates and patches that kill off illegal serials. And let's face it, a game as comprehensive as a wargame, you NEED those patches tweaks updates and alterations. Most of the patches I get for my Matrix Games titles, often are more about tweaks to make the game more credible than to make them free of bugs.
No one wants to invest a month playing a serious wargame, just to see an unforseen technical gaffe render the game 'silly and unrealistic'. Sure we want those updates.

But I regularly reinstall my OS just as a weird form of computer housecleaning.
Limited installs, well that renders a product defacto broken in my world when I think of it. I have no use for games that arrive broken I suppose.

John was nice to go to digital download, but then he went and ruined his product.
If the outcry is any indication, her first digital download, might be his last. He should maybe stick to his day job full time. No one seems interested in him if this is the route he will be maintaining. He's standing a real chance of becoming a name from the past, that will end up IN the past.

Been with Matrix Games almost from when they showed up on the internet. Seen them go from basically just a free download of Steel Panthers to today having more wargames under their banner than you can shake a stick at.
I think over all, if David Heath wishes to say his way is right and Johns way is wrong, well David has the proof of the pudding in his defense John.
Their list of games is all the proof David needs.

And that is not being a fan boy, merely me pointing out what will be hard to refute.

[simovitch]

I've contacted Mr. Tiller in the past on various subjects and he usually responds right away. Rich Hamilton is deeply involved with Tiller/HPS development and is also very active in the Wargamer and other Forums and is also very responsive to email support questions.

I'm sure they have their reasons for going this route, and it's probably related to the ease at which some of the HPS games can be "loaned" to freinds by simply zipping up the files and emailing them. I don't think you can't do that with Matrix Games unless you provide both the installer and the CD Key, which feels a lot more like balatant piracy than the former method I suppose.