Building new bases

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: marky

[:D]

ya but theres like 100 engineer vehicles there, maybe 3 seperate seabee units, plus base units. Port moresby has a fraction of this and its expanding much faster, and its at a higher level. is it the weather or something? [&:]

it didnt take that long to build a fighter strip in real life, far as i remember anyway[&:]

A situation like PM is about leverage. It's easier to make something bigger than to make it the first time.

The first thing those engineers do when they get to a (0) dot hex is clear trees and undergrowth, make a place to sleep, eat, and use the latrine. They find water or dig a well. They establish a perimeter, maybe build some bunkers. They secure their supplies. They establish comms. Set up a sick-bay. THEN they start on the air strip. At PM all that early stuff is built; there's a base at the base. To build a parallel runway to the first is much faster than starting with jungle.

[marky]

indeed but the manual says its harder to go from 4-5 than 0-1 right? [&:]

it shouldnt take 90 days to build a fighter strip, that just doesnt make any sense, i mean how long was it in RL from when they took the airfields or started building em till they had a functioning airstrip that could at least take fighters?

need to bring in better labor [:D]

[Skyros]

9.4.2 Base Construction and Repair
Once a port or airfield reaches its SPS, the cost of additional construction increases significantly,
You should consider halting construction or else risk consuming large quantities of supplies
for possibly little benefit. In addition to the normal costs, it takes 10 times longer than normal
to increase a current size 0 airfield with a SPS of zero to a size of 1. These size zero locations
were very unsuitable for airfields (such as Wau, which was built on the side of a mountain).

Pg 215.

[marky]

ahh, so its the scenario then. in the grand campaign the SPS of the port and airfield are higher. ty skyros [:D]

[Schanilec]

I suppose it depends on who is building the base/airfield. Take Henderson Field. The Japanese were there in early May. When the marines landing on 7 August the airfield was not quite complete. That's three months. An at that it was not really hacked out of jungle. Mostly kunia grass, brush and coconut palms. And include what the Moose mentioned. Plus leveling, compacting and surfacing the ground.
 
My thoughts anyway.

[marky]

they musta been too busy drinkin the sake and building a shrine to Benzaiten [:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

I suppose it depends on who is building the base/airfield. Take Henderson Field. The Japanese were there in early May. When the marines landing on 7 August the airfield was not quite complete. That's three months. An at that it was not really hacked out of jungle. Mostly kunia grass, brush and coconut palms. And include what the Moose mentioned. Plus leveling, compacting and surfacing the ground.

My thoughts anyway.

In RL I think the micro-terrain was a huge factor. We have 40-miles hexes of the same terrain, with no elevation. Even a slight ridge, maybe 15-20 feet, running along or across the runway's path was going to need to be removed. (I'm no pilot, but I "think" landing uphill or downhill is a Bad Thing.) Millions of yards of dirt and coral to be moved sometimes. Seabees were busy, and there were a lot of them.

[marky]

true [:D]

[Bradley7735]

ORIGINAL: marky

indeed but the manual says its harder to go from 4-5 than 0-1 right? [&:]

it shouldnt take 90 days to build a fighter strip, that just doesnt make any sense, i mean how long was it in RL from when they took the airfields or started building em till they had a functioning airstrip that could at least take fighters?

need to bring in better labor [:D]

I don't know if this was fixed or not, but I noticed this a while back. If I put a gazillion engineers at an SPS (0) airfield base and started construction, I would see about 1% increase each day. But, when it got to 10% completed, the airbase went to 1. After that, it was easy to increase it to 2 and 3. I think my 2nd point is correct per the manual, but my first point may be a bug. I haven't tried to build a base at SPS 0 for over a year, so I don't know if this still happens.

bc

[oldman45]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: marky

[:D]

ya but theres like 100 engineer vehicles there, maybe 3 seperate seabee units, plus base units. Port moresby has a fraction of this and its expanding much faster, and its at a higher level. is it the weather or something? [&:]

it didnt take that long to build a fighter strip in real life, far as i remember anyway[&:]

A situation like PM is about leverage. It's easier to make something bigger than to make it the first time.

The first thing those engineers do when they get to a (0) dot hex is clear trees and undergrowth, make a place to sleep, eat, and use the latrine. They find water or dig a well. They establish a perimeter, maybe build some bunkers. They secure their supplies. They establish comms. Set up a sick-bay. THEN they start on the air strip. At PM all that early stuff is built; there's a base at the base. To build a parallel runway to the first is much faster than starting with jungle.

You forgot the most important thing Bullwinkle, they have to build the chiefs club before anything else. Just like Kings Bay in 79, the clubs were done before most of the rest of the buildings were started. [;)]

[jomni]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

In RL I think the micro-terrain was a huge factor. We have 40-miles hexes of the same terrain, with no elevation. Even a slight ridge, maybe 15-20 feet, running along or across the runway's path was going to need to be removed. (I'm no pilot, but I "think" landing uphill or downhill is a Bad Thing.) Millions of yards of dirt and coral to be moved sometimes. Seabees were busy, and there were a lot of them.

In contrast, Air units can move to a different hex and set up a base in a week in WITE. In Russia, there are many favorable flat areas to quickly build an airfield. But I suppose these are not the paved type... just grass strips. But not in the Pacific.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: oldman45
You forgot the most important thing Bullwinkle, they have to build the chiefs club before anything else. Just like Kings Bay in 79, the clubs were done before most of the rest of the buildings were started. [;)]

There are those old jokes about the Air Force building the O-club, then laying out the runways in the most favorable wind conditions remaining . . .

For the Army it was usually the golf course.

I was at KB beginning in December 1981. The clubs were magnificent, just unpopulated. Often times my wardrom were the only O-club customers every night, wearing out the jukebox on Willie Nelson tunes. The tender guys all went home to Jax. I saw the tender Food Service Officer's house once--luxury single-family with a hot tub. Pretty arduous "sea duty" for her.

The clubs, gym, admin offices, etc. were state-of-the-art, but the piers still used only tender shops, and the explosive handling wharf wasn't built yet. We still had to tug-shuffle nested boats to load birds and fish.

[oldman45]

I got there in Aug of 1980. My buddy drove me up from Tampa and we stood in the mud they called a parking lot with just a pier, my ship (Simon Lake), the T shed and way down the road the dry dock. He was stationed in Norfolk, took one look at this and fell out laughing. Got in his car and told me good luck. Yea those were the days. [:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

I got there in Aug of 1980. My buddy drove me up from Tampa and we stood in the mud they called a parking lot with just a pier, my ship (Simon Lake), the T shed and way down the road the dry dock. He was stationed in Norfolk, took one look at this and fell out laughing. Got in his car and told me good luck. Yea those were the days. [:D]

And outside the front gate: a two lane county blacktop/crossroads and pine trees. Not a bar, a clip-joint, or a used car lot for miles. Sweet duty for the "Join the Navy, See the World" enlisted guys.

[nashvillen]

Something also to remember about building a base: Make sure you take your Engineers off of "Strat" if you transport them in, otherwise all the equipment stays in boxes and everyone sits around and does nothing!

Yeah, it is one of those "Don't ask me how I know moments."

[Skyros]

And to think they abandoned Charleston for that place.

ORIGINAL: oldman45

I got there in Aug of 1980. My buddy drove me up from Tampa and we stood in the mud they called a parking lot with just a pier, my ship (Simon Lake), the T shed and way down the road the dry dock. He was stationed in Norfolk, took one look at this and fell out laughing. Got in his car and told me good luck. Yea those were the days. [:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Skyros

And to think they abandoned Charleston for that place.

Nah, they abandoned Holy Loch and Rota for that place, eventually. Charleston was still open for a long time after. I lived in Charleston and bused down to on-crew at KB. Charleston was a thriving base and shipyard when I left to go to Pearl in 1984. There was still a squadron of fast attacks on the river, and some of the non-Trdent-backfit boomers were still at Holy Loch in that era, but lived and trained in Charleston. The Weapons Station and PMOLant was cranking (I think the Weapons Station is still in operation, servicing KB.) Charleston had some Sprucans, frigates, and the Mine Warfare Command too. Lots of training infrastructure. And a really big yard.

[donkey_roxor]

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

In my estimation, the most egregious example is numerous instances of floatation for flotation.

Floatation is a variant of flotation:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/floatation

[oldman45]

I went to Charleston in 85 or 86, stayed there for 5 1/2 years. Seems to me the Shipyard closed in the late 90's and most of of the military left around that time. Not sure whats even there any more. Wasn't a bad place, did hurricane Hugo in the dry dock, that was exciting. [X(]

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: jomni

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

In RL I think the micro-terrain was a huge factor. We have 40-miles hexes of the same terrain, with no elevation. Even a slight ridge, maybe 15-20 feet, running along or across the runway's path was going to need to be removed. (I'm no pilot, but I "think" landing uphill or downhill is a Bad Thing.) Millions of yards of dirt and coral to be moved sometimes. Seabees were busy, and there were a lot of them.

In contrast, Air units can move to a different hex and set up a base in a week in WITE. In Russia, there are many favorable flat areas to quickly build an airfield. But I suppose these are not the paved type... just grass strips. But not in the Pacific.

In most cases, building an airfield from 0 to 1 isn't that difficult in AE -- only when the SPS level is (0). And it is probably fair that the first step is the hardest and takes the longest. SPS (0) represents truly exceptional terrain conditions. For example, the US Army couldn't find a suitable site for a fighter strip to defend Dutch Harbor anywhere on Unalaska, a rather large island in the Aleutians, so they built it on nearby Umnak, instead -- which they would not have done unless they had to, as, apart from the geographic distance, Umnak had problems of its own, such as no natural harbor. [At the other extreme, when US forces moved forward to occupy Amchitka, engineers drained a flooded basin, and found the underlying ground perfect for an airfield. Within two weeks B-24s were flying from there].

At Sitka, there was not enough land for a runway to accomodate aircraft takeoffs. The Navy experimented (once!) with using a catapult to launch a Kingfisher from the taxiway, with predictably disasterous results. Sitka's seaplanes stayed in the sea thereafter.

With enough time and effort a country can build an airstrip almost anywhere. The US eventually built an airstrip in French Frigate Shoals that could accomodate bombers -- it was as wide as the island, and much longer. It took the Japanese over two years to hack out a dirt runway on Marcus Island, that may not have ever been operational. In AE a player can build in those locations, but it is difficult to do so, as it was historically.