Big yes..., but a touch light on the Mobility Factor... [:D]
Long Tom Accuracy
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mike scholl 1
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RE: Long Tom Accuracy
Big yes..., but a touch light on the Mobility Factor... [:D]
RE: Long Tom Accuracy
Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?
Occasionally, and randomly, problems and solutions collide. The probability of these collisions is inversely related to the number of committees working on the solutions. -- Me.
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mike scholl 1
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RE: Long Tom Accuracy
ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?
I'll put my money on the 8" Howitzer.
RE: Long Tom Accuracy
ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?
At what range?
AIR the 8" howitzer at comparable ranges.
Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
RE: Long Tom Accuracy
Aw, c'mon dude, it's all CEP for a tube, and I know they taught that stuff to FOs. All depends on the tube design, the charge increment and how good the Met pukes were at HQ Bty. M113 could really reach out and touch someone The M115 just wasn't in it. Just take a peek at the CEP tables at base charge. Not that accuracy means anything, when a smaller CEP and smaller boom is equated to a bigger CEP and bigger boom. Just reach back and remember the stuff they taught you at Ft Sill, or if you didn't get to Sill, what the Yankee fools at Devins were trying to teach (if they could ever find their butts with their left hands).ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?
M113, hands down.
RE: Long Tom Accuracy
ORIGINAL: JWE
Aw, c'mon dude, it's all CEP for a tube, and I know they taught that stuff to FOs. All depends on the tube design, the charge increment and how good the Met pukes were at HQ Bty. M113 could really reach out and touch someone The M115 just wasn't in it. Just take a peek at the CEP tables at base charge. Not that accuracy means anything, when a smaller CEP and smaller boom is equated to a bigger CEP and bigger boom. Just reach back and remember the stuff they taught you at Ft Sill, or if you didn't get to Sill, what the Yankee fools at Devins were trying to teach (if they could ever find their butts with their left hands).ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?
M113, hands down.
Weren't the M107 and M110 about the same?
Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
- Fallschirmjager
- Posts: 3555
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:46 am
- Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
RE: Long Tom Accuracy
ORIGINAL: Gilbert
It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.
This gun was the 155mm GPF (Grande Puissance Filloux). More details here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_155mm_GPF
Gilbert
Ask my opponent DivePac88 about these guns in the PI [:D]
- Fallschirmjager
- Posts: 3555
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:46 am
- Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
RE: Long Tom Accuracy
ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?
I have read that when the war in Italy slowed down to a snail like pace that the Allies used the 8" gun as a 'sniper' piece being able to pick off single buildings and strong points in just a handful of shots.
- Blackhorse
- Posts: 1415
- Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Eastern US
RE: Long Tom Accuracy
There are a slew of US 155mm-equipped units in AE, but only a few should be using the Long Toms.
Most Army and Marine Divisions and separate artillery battalions have (or eventually get) the (device 1160) M1 Howitzer. Late war reinforcements from the ETO bring the (1167) M12 GMC, the self-propelled version of the M1 Howitzer. These 155's have an accuracy of '4'.
The US Army Coastal Artillery bns/rgts and the Marine defense battalions have (or upgrade to) the M1918 GPF and its modernized succesor, the M1A1 GPF. These are 155mm guns, not howitzers, on the rotating "Panama Mounts" that Mike Scholl mentioned that makes them effective versus ships. Their accuracy is 50 and 53 respectively.
IIRC, the only Long Tom-equipped (device 1161) units in the game should be about half of the dozen or so independent Marine artillery battalions. (The other half have 155mm howitzers). They each have only 12 tubes. These are the same M1A1 guns that the coastal defense battalions have, but we assume that the battalions are not as rigorously trained in engaging ships as are the defense battalions, and/or that not all of the guns have Panama Mounts and the associated tracking equipment, so the accuracy has been reduced to '25'. The primary role of the Long Tom battalions was to serve as Corps-artillery equivalent support for Marine grunts. But they were expected to be able to engage ships, as well.
Is your concern solely with the effect the Long Tom units are having during land combat, or is it bombardment effect of the other 155mm gun LCUs (like the Coastal Artillery regiments)?
WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff
Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!
Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!
RE: Long Tom Accuracy
Initially I was on the receiving end of Long Tom barrage, went into the db to see how/why I got my butt kicked. [;)]ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
...Is your concern solely with the effect the Long Tom units are having during land combat, or is it bombardment effect of the other 155mm gun LCUs (like the Coastal Artillery regiments)?
Noted the range and accuracy of the device were the same (25), and that the accuracy was substantually higher than similar pieces. Wasn't sure if this was WAD or a typo.
Thanks for stepping in and clarifying.
Pax
RE: Long Tom Accuracy
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?
I have read that when the war in Italy slowed down to a snail like pace that the Allies used the 8" gun as a 'sniper' piece being able to pick off single buildings and strong points in just a handful of shots.
Precision fire. The 8" howitzer and the 175mm gun were close in accuracy--the 175 was about 10% better. The 8" howitzer was about 5% more accurate in most missions according to the manuals.
Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
RE: Long Tom Accuracy
The 8" was MUCH more accurate. We could put an 8" round within a few feet of a point target perhaps 80-90% of the time once we had properly registered the target. The 175 was never able to get that close. If you got within 30 meters, you were lucky.ORIGINAL: herwin
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?
I have read that when the war in Italy slowed down to a snail like pace that the Allies used the 8" gun as a 'sniper' piece being able to pick off single buildings and strong points in just a handful of shots.
Precision fire. The 8" howitzer and the 175mm gun were close in accuracy--the 175 was about 10% better. The 8" howitzer was about 5% more accurate in most missions according to the manuals.
But, the 175 seemed to have a much larger burst radius, so precision accuaracy wasn't as important. I saw target effect as much as 80-90m to either side of the burst with a 175. The 8" seed to be less, perhaps 40-50 meters or so. What do the manuals say about burst radius?
Occasionally, and randomly, problems and solutions collide. The probability of these collisions is inversely related to the number of committees working on the solutions. -- Me.
RE: Long Tom Accuracy
ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
The 8" was MUCH more accurate. We could put an 8" round within a few feet of a point target perhaps 80-90% of the time once we had properly registered the target. The 175 was never able to get that close. If you got within 30 meters, you were lucky.ORIGINAL: herwin
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
I have read that when the war in Italy slowed down to a snail like pace that the Allies used the 8" gun as a 'sniper' piece being able to pick off single buildings and strong points in just a handful of shots.
Precision fire. The 8" howitzer and the 175mm gun were close in accuracy--the 175 was about 10% better. The 8" howitzer was about 5% more accurate in most missions according to the manuals.
But, the 175 seemed to have a much larger burst radius, so precision accuaracy wasn't as important. I saw target effect as much as 80-90m to either side of the burst with a 175. The 8" seed to be less, perhaps 40-50 meters or so. What do the manuals say about burst radius?
See this link.
Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com




