Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
ORIGINAL: treespider
On to Fuel...
What does a Fuel point roughly equate to - ton, barrel, kiloliter, gallon?
I forgot.
A Fuel point equates to a "Point". Some fuel points might correspond to a "ton", but others might correspond to a "majorshitload". You don't have to have a point to make a point, and points aren't all that pointed when ya look at the point. So looking at points is kinda pointless, yeah?ORIGINAL: treespider
On to Fuel...
What does a Fuel point roughly equate to - ton, barrel, kiloliter, gallon?
I forgot.
ORIGINAL: JWE
A Fuel point equates to a "Point". Some fuel points might correspond to a "ton", but others might correspond to a "majorshitload". You don't have to have a point to make a point, and points aren't all that pointed when ya look at the point. So looking at points is kinda pointless, yeah?ORIGINAL: treespider
On to Fuel...
What does a Fuel point roughly equate to - ton, barrel, kiloliter, gallon?
I forgot.
ORIGINAL: treespider
Refresh my memory do resources flow from Hokkaido to Honshu?
[:D][:D][:D][:D] Yeah, well enough of my rambling. Glad you took it in the spirit in which it was offered. Ciao. JohnORIGINAL: treespider
Yes, No, Sometimes, Maybe...
ORIGINAL: treespider
Houston...we have a problem.
Did a quick and dirty scrub down of resources For Japan and the various regions...after Yokel's concerns...
Using 1941 as my base line in comparison with Scenario #1-
Manchuria in game produces 29,600 resources daily or 10,804,000 yearly and consumes 13,700 daily or 5,000,500 yearly leaving a net difference of 5,803,500 points/tons available for export to Japan.
Occupied China in game produces 13,200 resources daily or 4,818,000 yearly and consumes 8,800 daily or 3,212,000 leaving a net difference of 1,606,000 points/tons available for export to Japan.
Problem is Occupied China exported over 4 mil tons of coal to Japan in 1941...far more than the 1.6 mil available in game.
It appears that Mainland Asia is under-represented resource wise. By my calculations Manchuria should have roughly 3500 resource centers as opposed to the 1480 in Stock-AE.
Likewise Occupied China should have should have close to 5,0000 resource centers vs...the 660 currently. Korea is also light....
Those numbers could be fudged with .... the industry in those areas is already operating at full capacity resource wise ...so additional resource centers would not tip the balance in any way other than to provide more resources available for export to Japan.
As it stands per Tracker 1.7.1
Stock AE Scenario 1
At Start Resource Production -
Japanese Small Islands - 400
Ryukus - 800
Sakhalin -10400
Korea – 13800
Formosa – 3400
Manchuria – 29600
China – 13200
Indochina – 6000
Total = 77,600
At Start Resource Consumption
Japanese Small Islands - 300
Ryukus -0
Sakhalin -600
Korea – 9200
Formosa – 1200
Manchuria – 13700
China – 8800
Indochina – 1300
Total = 35,100
Production – Consumption = Total Available for Export to Home Islands
77,600 – 35,100 = 42,500 available for export to Japan
Japan has a 44,500 point daily deficit to make up which translates to 16,242,500 points yearly.
So all of the excess RP in those areas described above still cannot offset the deficit in resources.
To implement my mod I will need to increase the resource centers in Manchuria and China to offset the balance.
I want my available resources for import yearly to equal if not exceed 20,000,000 points as I plan on creating a 20,000,000 point demand in Japan.
Using my earlier algorithm...
With Treespider’s Changes
At Start Resource - Production
Japanese Islands - 400
Ryukus - 800
Sakhalin -10400
Korea – 13800
Formosa – 3400
Manchuria – 29600
China – 13200
Indochina – 6000
Total = 77,600
At Start Resource Consumption
Japanese Islands - 400
Ryukus -0
Sakhalin -800
Korea – 9350
Formosa – 1600
Manchuria – 15,000
China – 9400
Indochina – 1500
Total = 38050
Production – Consumption = Total Available for Export to Home Islands
77,600 – 38050 = 39,050 available for export to Japan
HOWEVER I need this figure to approach 55,000 which means I need to account for an additional 16,000 RP a day in potential production. 16,000 / 20 = 800 Resource centers
I think I can divide 800 resource centers across existing centers in Manchuria and Occupied China.
WOOOF!
ORIGINAL: treespider
Houston...we have a problem.
Did a quick and dirty scrub down of resources For Japan and the various regions...after Yokel's concerns...
Using 1941 as my base line in comparison with Scenario #1-
Manchuria in game produces 29,600 resources daily or 10,804,000 yearly and consumes 13,700 daily or 5,000,500 yearly leaving a net difference of 5,803,500 points/tons available for export to Japan.
Occupied China in game produces 13,200 resources daily or 4,818,000 yearly and consumes 8,800 daily or 3,212,000 leaving a net difference of 1,606,000 points/tons available for export to Japan.
Problem is Occupied China exported over 4 mil tons of coal to Japan in 1941...far more than the 1.6 mil available in game.
It appears that Mainland Asia is under-represented resource wise. By my calculations Manchuria should have roughly 3500 resource centers as opposed to the 1480 in Stock-AE.
Likewise Occupied China should have should have close to 5,0000 resource centers vs...the 660 currently. Korea is also light....
Those numbers could be fudged with .... the industry in those areas is already operating at full capacity resource wise ...so additional resource centers would not tip the balance in any way other than to provide more resources available for export to Japan.
As it stands per Tracker 1.7.1
Stock AE Scenario 1
At Start Resource Production -
Japanese Small Islands - 400
Ryukus - 800
Sakhalin -10400
Korea – 13800
Formosa – 3400
Manchuria – 29600
China – 13200
Indochina – 6000
Total = 77,600
At Start Resource Consumption
Japanese Small Islands - 300
Ryukus -0
Sakhalin -600
Korea – 9200
Formosa – 1200
Manchuria – 13700
China – 8800
Indochina – 1300
Total = 35,100
Production – Consumption = Total Available for Export to Home Islands
77,600 – 35,100 = 42,500 available for export to Japan
Japan has a 44,500 point daily deficit to make up which translates to 16,242,500 points yearly.
So all of the excess RP in those areas described above still cannot offset the deficit in resources.
To implement my mod I will need to increase the resource centers in Manchuria and China to offset the balance.
I want my available resources for import yearly to equal if not exceed 20,000,000 points as I plan on creating a 20,000,000 point demand in Japan.
Using my earlier algorithm...
With Treespider’s Changes
At Start Resource - Production
Japanese Islands - 400
Ryukus - 800
Sakhalin -10400
Korea – 13800
Formosa – 3400
Manchuria – 29600
China – 13200
Indochina – 6000
Total = 77,600
At Start Resource Consumption
Japanese Islands - 400
Ryukus -0
Sakhalin -800
Korea – 9350
Formosa – 1600
Manchuria – 15,000
China – 9400
Indochina – 1500
Total = 38050
Production – Consumption = Total Available for Export to Home Islands
77,600 – 38050 = 39,050 available for export to Japan
HOWEVER I need this figure to approach 55,000 which means I need to account for an additional 16,000 RP a day in potential production. 16,000 / 20 = 800 Resource centers
I think I can divide 800 resource centers across existing centers in Manchuria and Occupied China.
WOOOF!
ORIGINAL: JWE
[:D][:D][:D][:D] Yeah, well enough of my rambling. Glad you took it in the spirit in which it was offered. Ciao. JohnORIGINAL: treespider
Yes, No, Sometimes, Maybe...
ORIGINAL: JWE
Ok, so here's my basis and also my dilema.
Oil:
Japan (and a few 'elsewhere' places) produces 2,250 Oil; DEI/Burma produces 30,000 Oil. Now, Oil is not used for ANYTHING, except as an input to Refineries.
Refineries:
Japan (and a few 'elsewhere' places) has 1035 Refineries; DEI/Burma has 2330 Refineries. So the tendency will be to 2/3 of Oil production right where it is, thereby requiring squat for tanker tonnage to move it.
Refineries produce Fuel and Supply:
Japan (and a few 'elsewhere' places) produces 9315 Fuel and 1035 Supply; DEI/Burma produces 20970 Fuel and 2330 Supply. So they are entirely self-sufficient and any HI in those areas just dump HI points into the pools, so there is a completely self-sustaining economy going on, in which ONLY EXCESS "Fuel" needs to be transported to Japan to run the marginal differential HI. Who gives a rat where the Fuel comes from, and who gives a rat where the HI points come from: if there's a completely functional economy happening in DEI/Burma, then screw Japan's requirements, she'll get what's left over. DEI/Burma becomes the gas station and supply center for anything and everything happening South of Hong Kong. The Japanese Home Islands become marginalized to the extent the SRA is secured.
HI:
Japan has 6170 HIs that require 12,340 Fuel (and 123,400 Res) and output 12,340 HI Points and 12,340 Supply. Other places (Elsewhere and Capturable) have 980 HIs that require 1,960 Fuel (and 19,600 Res) and output 1,960 HI Points and 1,960 Supply. Clearly, the "Other" places have all the Fuel and Resources they need for full output, so again the Japanese Home Islands become marginalized to the extent the SRA is secured.
The only requirement for Japan is to import the marginal Fuel and Resources necessary for airframe and engine factory requirements "over and above" those already being put into the pools by "Other" places, so again the Japanese Home Islands become marginalized to the extent the SRA is secured.
LI:
Didn't feel like adding up all the ants, so just using Spideys numbers, Japan has 7900 LIs that require 118,500 Resources and output 7900 Supply. Other places (at game start, and NOT including anything Capturable) have 980 LIs that require 19,600 Resources and output 1960 Supply, i.e, 9340 LIs that require 140,100 Resources and output 9340 Supply in toto.
Since the native and capturable HI and Refineries produce 14,670 Supply, and generates it in places that are closer to the front, one wonders why one should ship resources to Japan to feed the LI machine. Indeed, one wonders why they shouldn't turn off the Japanese LI machine altogether.
So:
Only things that have to flow are Fuel (in decreasing quantities as areas are captured) and Resources (also in decreasing quantities, just not as bad). So the initial imperitive of capturing someplace and bringing the goodies home, is no longer valid. And the initial concept of using the merchant fleet to bring those goodies home, is no longer valid either.
Ciao. John
ORIGINAL: witpqs
Tankerage is needed for the oil and desired for the fuel, but xAK's can be used for the fuel as well. In fact, as long as enough tankerage is available for the oil that's fine. The effort is (mostly) about putting IRL stress on the merchant marine, so xAK's being needed to haul fuel seems just fine.
True?
ORIGINAL: witpqs
The fly in the ointment is that sometimes the Allies do succeed in seeing the oil centers and/or refineries damaged upon capture. Pre-damaging them - I don't know. Might be too much of a burden on Japanese players.
