First Blizzard

*Lava* · Post by ***Lava*** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:48 pm

This is the first game vs the AI in which I have gone into the Blizzard.

Overall, I was fighting for territory right up until the Blizzard struck and made no special preparations.

Here are the stats at the beginning and end of the Blizzard:

*Lava* · Post by ***Lava*** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:50 pm

Here is the strategic situation at the beginning of the Blizzard:

*Lava* · Post by ***Lava*** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:51 pm

Here is the strategic situation at the end of the Blizzard:

*Lava* · Post by ***Lava*** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:55 pm

Overall, I lost 1.4 million in comparison to the Soviets who lost 1.0 million.

My southerly front is hard pressed and close to collapse... but didn't.

Just thought I would post this for folks to take a look at. Was a looong winter and quite interesting to play. May change the way I do things in the future though as far as defense.

Will now resume the game and see how it goes.

Cheers.

Klydon · Post by **Klydon** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:10 pm

What level of AI are you playing with by chance?

*Lava* · Post by ***Lava*** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:13 pm

Normal.

I have played lots of games now as the Axis and this was the first time that I was able to take Leningrad and felt comfortable with going into the Blizzard.

Pretty steep learning curve for me but I am learning as I go. [;)]

mmarquo · Post by **mmarquo** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:35 pm

Note that most of the losses are disabled; ie. ~ 1,500,000. They will be returned:
 

"Disabled Men: [font="helvetica neue,helvetica neue"][font="helvetica neue,helvetica neue"]Permanent losses are not 100 percent permanent, because one percent of the men listed as disabled are returned to the manpower pool per turn. Note that although some disabled troops return to duty, since their devices were destroyed and they only slowly return to duty, as long as they have not returned to duty they still count for victory purposes and are considered "permanent" losses."[/font][/font]
[font="helvetica neue,helvetica neue"][font="helvetica neue,helvetica neue"][/font][/font] 
[font="helvetica neue,helvetica neue"][font="helvetica neue,helvetica neue"]So in addition to to regular reinforcements, you will get >/15,000 men added back to the pool/week for 8 - 10 weeks before the mud clears and it's time for the spring offensive; you will refit with about 150,000 - 180,000 men returning from disabled status.[/font][/font]
[font="helvetica neue,helvetica neue"][font="helvetica neue,helvetica neue"][/font][/font] 
[font="helvetica neue,helvetica neue"][font="helvetica neue,helvetica neue"]Marquo [:)][/font][/font]

Commanderski · Post by **Commanderski** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:46 pm

Thanks for the information from both of you.

*Lava* · Post by ***Lava*** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:02 pm

ORIGINAL: Marquo

Note that most of the losses are disabled; ie. ~ 1,500,000. They will be returned:

Actually, I thought the BLIZZARD would totally destroy my ability to continue. But actually, the first week after, in snow, I'm already on the offensive again and captured my first 2 units.

To be quite frank, what happened during the blizzard was pretty much what I thought would occur based on history... at least vs the AI.

Overall, given how much time this game takes to play (and I've played a lot), I still think it is way too early to say the game is broke.

I'm having a great time playing and sure hope folks don't start dumbing it down because everyone can't win as the Axis.

It is quite hard to win as the Germans... as it should be.

EntropyAvatar · Post by **EntropyAvatar** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:33 pm

ORIGINAL: Lava
To be quite frank, what happened during the blizzard was pretty much what I thought would occur based on history... at least vs the AI.

I think 'vs the AI' is key. The AI is fairly timid on the attack and doesn't seem to really operate with a plan for unhinging you. It doesn't have a sense of the opportunity the blizzard rules give it and it doesn't plan to mount a coherent offensive as soon as the blizzard hits.

A good soviet player will not lose 4.3 million permanent losses against a good Axis player, or even close. But (if the AARs are any indication), they will can cause historic or better losses.

*Lava* · Post by ***Lava*** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:19 pm

ORIGINAL: EntropyAvatar

I think 'vs the AI' is key. The AI is fairly timid on the attack and doesn't seem to really operate with a plan for unhinging you. It doesn't have a sense of the opportunity the blizzard rules give it and it doesn't plan to mount a coherent offensive as soon as the blizzard hits.

Possibly... or perhaps after kicking the AI's ass, it had good reason to be timid. As I stated, the first turn after the blizzard and I was essentially back on the offensive... sending stacks of 3 Soviet units fleeing.

A good soviet player will not lose 4.3 million permanent losses against a good Axis player, or even close. But (if the AARs are any indication), they will can cause historic or better losses.

I think it is also a hell'va lot easier to be a good soviet player than a good Axis one, at this point. Still waaaay to early.

To win in PBEM as the axis should require not just good... but superb.

After tons of hours put into this game playing as the Axis, I still would not even think about going head to head with a human opponent.

Generally, what I find here are folks looking for some sort of "formula" (like the Lvov pocket thing... which I didn't use) to make things easier for the Axis player to win.

2ndACR · Post by **2ndACR** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:15 pm

Not looking for a formula but how to best use the forces the German has. As you said, it will take superb play to have a chance. Few of us are Patton or Rommel, so we put our heads together. You don't need to Lvov against the AI, but you better against a Human.

And trust me, no matter how hard you prepare against a human, when the blizzard hits, your toast, full collapse. Across the board. I have been thru 4 blizzards and about to hit the 5th. So I am planning on starting 1942 around west of the Dneper already. If not at my start point, if I can rebuild my army after it is all over.

*Lava* · Post by ***Lava*** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:46 pm

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
You don't need to Lvov against the AI, but you better against a Human.

Perhaps...

mmarquo · Post by **mmarquo** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:30 am

Lava,
 
I find your optimism refreshing.
 
Marquo [:)]

mikemcmann · Post by **mikemcmann** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:11 am

I'm with lava...

In three poem games now, all as axis. Started same rough time against three different opponents. All three are at turn prior to mud(ish). All three I've dealt 2.5 - 3.5 million casualties. One im struggling across the dnepr, but all three I've taken Leningrad.

Point is, my strength is +\- 3.6 German 1.5 minor allies. Ive got good fall back positions, low fatigue and preplanned wintering locations. While I doubt all will go according to plan, I seriously doubt my army will be wrecked by february. Playing the ai many times on all difficulties really didn't produce that result either, similar to lavas experience.

Honestly, I tire of the complaints. No one even tries to play past february..... Until you play the game the full 200 or so turns, no one can really honestly or righteously complain.... When someone does that more than a few times for statistical variance and the result is constant soviet decisive victories, then you are allowed to START to whine a bit...... It's unacceptable until that point.....

McMann

2ndACR · Post by **2ndACR** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:54 am

Sorry, I have gone to turn Aug 42 in a PBEM pre beta 3. That army was totally wrecked. But mainly by the TOE bugs. And never attacked during the blizzard turns.

Took 1 PBEM game beta 3 all the way to March 42, basically watched the Russian launch 80 attacks per turn each turn. By Mrch 42 the average German Div looked like the Romanians, and I stopped and dug in in early Oct.

Have played 1 PBEM game on turn 18 about 12 times all the way to March 42 against an opponent trying different strategies.

Took another to turn 31, got another at turn 23.

Well, if you want to wait a couple years for any adjustments, be my guest.

And until you play a PBEM game IN the blizzard, then you can talk. I await to see your results. When you see 13 turns of 80+ attacks and your preplanned defenses crumble to the slightest bump. The German army crumbles faster than the Russian army on turn 4.

Aussiematto · Post by **Aussiematto** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:20 am

Sobering words 2ndACR... my moment of glee recently (50 units destroyed, Turn 10 in a large pocket around Chernigov) has turned to ice as I remind myself... wait til the DAMN blizzard.

mikemcmann · Post by **mikemcmann** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:36 am

2ndac. I'm sure you've played those few games to winter well. But again, until many games have gone to completion, it is not a fair shake to complain about the aspect you and others struggle with. When those dates read "May 45", with a crushing Russian victory, numerous times, then the winter complaint might be bandied around....

Saying on here "trust me......full collapse....your toast" sounds rather arrogant and just doesn't help. Maybe someone else will be able weather the winter and then the calls of "the sky is falling!" will seem embarrassingly unsophisticated....

Just letting you know, that the constant refrain of "WINTER! WAHHHHHHHHH!". Without something constructive is tiresome. Of course, no offense intended...

McMann

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:33 am

Gotta agree emphatically with 2ndACR, playing PBEM is another thing entirely than versus the AI. I played through a winter with a Normal+ AI when the game first released and it wasn't that bad. I got pushed back and suffered some horrendous losses, but it was all within the realm of historical plausibility. I attribute that to two factors, the AI took over 4.5 million casualties inintially and during the blizzard it attacked as intelligently as a wet blanket. Against a human Russian in pbem you will be crushed in that first blizzard, no matter what you do previously to prepare. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it except run and that is not historical at all.

*Lava* · Post by ***Lava*** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:42 am

ORIGINAL: Ron

Against a human Russian in pbem you will be crushed in that first blizzard, no matter what you do previously to prepare. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it except run and that is not historical at all.

I suspect that, in PBEM, what happens in the blizzard depends enormously on what happens before it.

Can you post your best turn 25 result and a screen of the strategic situation in a PBEM game Ron?

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