Invading Pearl Harbor

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mjk428
Posts: 872
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 3:29 am
Location: Western USA

RE: Invading Pearl Harbor

Post by mjk428 »

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: JeffK
Sorry, a blatant AFB post, lock the thread.[:'(]
Nah, not really a blatant AFB post. The poor fellow has no clue why certain decisions were made. Some people just want to do a 'urinate on everything possible in the game you can find' kinda post.[;)] If you really want to lock it, I'll have it done, but don't think it's worthwhile at this point.

But yeah, the HI are outside the bounds of "emergency reinforcements". And those of you who play the game know why.


I know why. PBEM Axis players complained, and instead of being slagged off like you do with the AI Allied players, they got what they wanted.

I've been playing Grigsby games for 30 years. I purchased WitP and AE on release day.
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Blackhorse
Posts: 1415
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Location: Eastern US

RE: Invading Pearl Harbor

Post by Blackhorse »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

The US has ample forces available to defend Hawaii early in the war. It does *not* have enough forces to simultaneously protect Hawaii, fortify the islands across the South Pacific, and send reinforcements to Australia, while PPs are spent releasing forces from the DEI, Malaysia and the PI. Finding the appropriate balance is one of the many delightful frustrations the Allied player gets to deal with in AE.
[:)]

That is so unfair and clearly shows the game is borked. [snip] Just as soon as the devs have made some money from this game, I'm going to sue for punitive damages.[:)]

Alfred

LOL!

Good luck with your lawsuit! Triple damages and $US4.50 will get you a double-espresso.
WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!
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Blackhorse
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Eastern US

RE: Invading Pearl Harbor

Post by Blackhorse »

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Thanks for the "rational" response. [;)]

These units were available unrestricted in PacWar, WitP, & AE 1.0. If they could be deployed too soon, then the rational way to deal with that was delaying their arrival or disabling 90% of their squads. Having to pay "political" points for units that were among the first to leave the States just doesn't sit right by me. Also, there may be ample points to change the units over that were needed but there is already a shortage of points for changing from Restricted Australia bases over to Southwest Pacific. In PacWar this occurred automatically. Some will say that it's not necessary but the restricted bases play havoc with air transfers of planes and troops. I like things orderly.Because I'm always hoarding PPs for big things I rarely use them for changing leaders like I should. I doubt Nimitz had much political trouble getting LTs replaced or moving around units destined to the Central/South Pacific. If I wanted to send the Americal Division to India I'd understand the problem. I don't play like that. The first year is all about reinforcing and base building along historical lines.

"Rational" is my middle name. (But "Ir" is my first name.)

In developing AE we actually looked at lessons learned from WitP and (in my case at least) Pacwar, and did some beta testing to get the PP and restricted unit mix correct. And we determined the best mix was to unrestrict at-start US LCUs that deployed prior to March 1, and restrict those, like the 27th, 40th and 41st Divisions, that deployed later. Somehow we left out that adjustment when AE 1.0 was released -- but we fixed it quickly in a patch.

Like you, I like to keep things orderly. And you are right, there are not enough PPs to assign everyone to the right HQs. Personally, I'd have preferred a de minimus (or no) PP charge for switching units among unrestricted HQs. But as that would have been mainly for aesthic purposes, not gameplay, it was way down the change list.
WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!
erstad
Posts: 1953
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:40 pm
Location: Midwest USA

RE: Invading Pearl Harbor

Post by erstad »

Also, there may be ample points to change the units over that were needed but there is already a shortage of points for changing from Restricted Australia bases over to Southwest Pacific. In PacWar this occurred automatically. Some will say that it's not necessary but the restricted bases play havoc with air transfers of planes and troops.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this? I would have said that the restricted bases are more flexible than SWPac, not less.
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crsutton
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RE: Invading Pearl Harbor

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

ORIGINAL: mjk428
In an early patch the 40th Infantry Division & part of the Americal Division became restricted. This decision was deemed necessary for "game balance" - the Allies were actually able to defend themselvs from Japs rampaging through the Central/South Pacific - and that just couldn't stand. It takes 4 full months worth of PPs to activate them. If the Japs were threatening Hawaii there would be no political reason why those units wouldn't be used to defend US possessions since they were deployed in '42. Invading past Wake should at least give the Allies a one-time 3000 PP boost.

The patch change was not made for "play balance" -- it was made to correct a glitch. The intended general rule of thumb for US at start forces on the West Coast is that they should start unrestricted if they historically shipped overseas in December, January and February. Otherwise, they start restricted. At the rate PPs accumulate, this allows the Allied player to release US forces at about the historic rate, and still do some fussing around with leaders, air groups, and smallish Dutch and Commonwealth formations.

The 40th Division did not ship out until September.

The US has ample forces available to defend Hawaii early in the war. It does *not* have enough forces to simultaneously protect Hawaii, fortify the islands across the South Pacific, and send reinforcements to Australia, while PPs are spent releasing forces from the DEI, Malaysia and the PI. Finding the appropriate balance is one of the many delightful frustrations the Allied player gets to deal with in AE.
[:)]


And remember. Real men pay retail....[8D]
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg
mjk428
Posts: 872
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 3:29 am
Location: Western USA

RE: Invading Pearl Harbor

Post by mjk428 »

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Thanks for the "rational" response. [;)]

These units were available unrestricted in PacWar, WitP, & AE 1.0. If they could be deployed too soon, then the rational way to deal with that was delaying their arrival or disabling 90% of their squads. Having to pay "political" points for units that were among the first to leave the States just doesn't sit right by me. Also, there may be ample points to change the units over that were needed but there is already a shortage of points for changing from Restricted Australia bases over to Southwest Pacific. In PacWar this occurred automatically. Some will say that it's not necessary but the restricted bases play havoc with air transfers of planes and troops. I like things orderly.Because I'm always hoarding PPs for big things I rarely use them for changing leaders like I should. I doubt Nimitz had much political trouble getting LTs replaced or moving around units destined to the Central/South Pacific. If I wanted to send the Americal Division to India I'd understand the problem. I don't play like that. The first year is all about reinforcing and base building along historical lines.
"Rational" is my middle name. (But "Ir" is my first name.)

In developing AE we actually looked at lessons learned from WitP and (in my case at least) Pacwar, and did some beta testing to get the PP and restricted unit mix correct. And we determined the best mix was to unrestrict at-start US LCUs that deployed prior to March 1, and restrict those, like the 27th, 40th and 41st Divisions, that deployed later. Somehow we left out that adjustment when AE 1.0 was released -- but we fixed it quickly in a patch.

Like you, I like to keep things orderly. And you are right, there are not enough PPs to assign everyone to the right HQs. Personally, I'd have preferred a de minimus (or no) PP charge for switching units among unrestricted HQs. But as that would have been mainly for aesthic purposes, not gameplay, it was way down the change list.

Thank you for your work and for the thoughtful response.
mjk428
Posts: 872
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 3:29 am
Location: Western USA

RE: Invading Pearl Harbor

Post by mjk428 »

ORIGINAL: erstad
Also, there may be ample points to change the units over that were needed but there is already a shortage of points for changing from Restricted Australia bases over to Southwest Pacific. In PacWar this occurred automatically. Some will say that it's not necessary but the restricted bases play havoc with air transfers of planes and troops.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this? I would have said that the restricted bases are more flexible than SWPac, not less.

It could very well be that my problems arose because I changed the bases over to SWPac. It's going from Australia (R) to SWPac where I've had difficulities in the past.

This playthrough I'm not changing the bases - although I would like to for historical reasons.
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