Can we have Rudel counter please

[JJKettunen]

What is pathetic is that people actually believe all that Rudel stuff. Read any proper study of air power effectiveness in WWII, and you will understand how wildly exaggerated his combat record is.

[Krupinski]

ORIGINAL: Keke

What is pathetic is that people actually believe all that Rudel stuff. Read any proper study of air power effectiveness in WWII, and you will understand how wildly exaggerated his combat record is.

http://bit.ly/i61Jxv

[Krafty]

ORIGINAL: Keke

What is pathetic is that people actually believe all that Rudel stuff. Read any proper study of air power effectiveness in WWII, and you will understand how wildly exaggerated his combat record is.

+1


I believe his entire GROUP did some of the things Rudel claims, but Rudel claimed them as if he did it all by himself.

By all accounts on the ground, the Marat wasnt sunk by a single plane.

Also how did he destroy so much in a Stuka G with no guns?! The 37mms required the other forward weaponry be removed. The 37mms were prone to jamming and ammo explosions when hit, so they usually werent fully loaded. Rudel had at most, 13-15 shots before being forced to return to base. Even flying twice a day, three times a day, he could not wrack up the kill scores that he claimed.

The D2 model with forward firing 20mms and 120 rounds per gun, now THAT could do some damage when used against soft targets. The 37mms loaded with armor piercing ammo, not HE or APHE as was loaded into the 20mm, could simply not destroy something like an artillery piece unless directly hit. With the rate of fire of the 37mms you might only get 3 or 4 shots at a target before passing over it.

Rudel is a bafoon if expected historians 60-70 years later to believe his claims.

[Lrfss]

Hero of the Fatherland once again under attack...

Even worse, American MOH winners are given no slack and defamed...[:-]

[Panama]

That's ok. They wouldn't mind and Sgt. York would wonder what all the fuss was about. "After all, those fellas over there lost and most are dead."

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: hafer

Which book? Author? Please give us a link..
[/quote]
The book is Stuka Pilot by Hans Ulrich Rudel

I am not qualified to enter the historical debate ( and don't really care much) but I do know a cool cardboard counter when I see one. The Rudel counter was one of the best ever IMHO. I was trying to make some folk feel a warm glow of nostalgia rather than having people get hot under the collar.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
I am not qualified to enter the historical debate ( and don't really care much) but I do know a cool cardboard counter when I see one. The Rudel counter was one of the best ever IMHO. I was trying to make some folk feel a warm glow of nostalgia rather than having people get hot under the collar.

Well, I think that warm glow you refer to might be related to what was that counter actually modeling



how on earth could otherwise the guy smoke 5,000 men and 80 tanks?

Wargame design can get really cheesy sometimes [:D]

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
I am not qualified to enter the historical debate ( and don't really care much) but I do know a cool cardboard counter when I see one. The Rudel counter was one of the best ever IMHO. I was trying to make some folk feel a warm glow of nostalgia rather than having people get hot under the collar.

Well, I think that warm glow you refer to might be related to what was that counter actually modeling



how on earth could otherwise the guy smoke 5,000 men and 80 tanks?

Wargame design can get really cheesy sometimes [:D]

I think you're confusing the Rudel counter with the Enola Gay counter. [:'(]

[tigercub]

Hans-Ulrich Rudel (2 July 1916 – 18 December 1982) was a Stuka dive-bomber pilot during World War II and a member of the Nazi party. The most highly decorated German serviceman of the war, Rudel was one of only 27 military men to be awarded the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds, and the only one to be awarded the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Gold Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds.

Rudel flew 2,530 combat missions claiming a total of 2,000 targets destroyed; including 800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery pieces, a destroyer, two cruisers, one Soviet battleship, 70 landing craft, 4 armored trains, several bridges and nine aircraft which he shot down


Combat duty during World War II
Ju 87 G-2 "Kanonenvogel" with its twin Bordkanone BK 3.7, 37 mm guns.Rudel flew his first four combat missions on 23 June 1941, during the German invasion of the Soviet Union. His demonstrated piloting skills earned him the Iron Cross 1st Class on 18 July 1941. On 23 September 1941, he and another Stuka pilot sank the Soviet battleship Marat, during an air attack on Kronstadt harbor in the Leningrad area, with hits to the bow using 1,000 kg bombs.[3] By the end of December, he had flown his 400th mission and in January 1942 received the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross. On 10 February 1943, he became the first pilot in history to fly 1,000 sorties. Around this time he also started flying anti-tank operations with the 'Kanonenvogel', or G, version of the Ju-87, through the Battle of Kursk, and into the autumn of 1943, claiming 100 tanks destroyed.

By March 1944, he was already Gruppenkommandeur (group commander) of III./StG 2 (appointed on 19 July 1943) and had reached 1,800 operations. At that time he claimed 202 tanks destroyed.

On 13 March 1944 Rudel may have been involved in aerial combat with the Hero of the Soviet Union, Lev Shestakov.[citation needed] Shestakov failed to return from this mission and was posted as missing in action.[citation needed] From Rudel's memoirs:

Was he shot down by Gadermann [Rudel's rear gunner], or did he go down because of the backwash from my engine during these tight turns? It doesn't matter. My headphones suddenly exploded in confused screams from the Russian radio; the Russians have observed what happened and something special seems to have happened... From the Russian radio-messages, we discover that this was a very famous Soviet fighter pilot, more than once appointed as Hero of the Soviet Union. I should give him credit: he was a good pilot.

In November 1944, he was wounded in the thigh and flew subsequent missions with his leg in a plaster cast.

On 8 February 1945, a 40 mm shell hit his aircraft. He was badly wounded in the right foot and crash landed inside German lines. His life was saved by his observer Ernst Gadermann who stemmed the bleeding, but Rudel's leg was amputated below the knee. He returned to operations on 25 March 1945, claiming 26 more tanks destroyed before the end of the war. Determined not to fall into Soviet hands, he led three Ju 87s and four FW 190s westward from Bohemia in a 2-hour flight and surrendered to U.S. forces on 8 May 1945, after landing at Kitzingen airfield, held by the US 405th Fighter Group.

Eleven months in a hospital followed. Released by the Americans, he moved to Argentina in 1948.

and probly killed more people than anyone in the second world war less the nuke bombers crews, and was a bloody Nazi

not like Eric Hartman.

anyone thinking the JU87 was not a good aircraft does not know what he is talking about they made there own history

Damaged 2 CVs UK

Sunk at least 1 BB damaged 2 more UK,russian

Sunk at least 3 CA Damaged 2 more UK,russian

Sunk many DD around 12 mostly UK,Russian

hundreds small ships ,Bridges

Thousands of Tanks,planes on the ground.

Tens of Thousands ,Tucks ,trains ,bunkers ,...god knows how many people.

they made 5,700 JU87s well worth building them i would think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccOXrfBZ ... re=related


no counter thx