Partisans v.1.04.11

[Helpless]

Glad the partisan issue is fixed. Wonder if the patch will do anything to the already created partisans?

They shouldn't gain morale that fast and be much less active.

[Gewehr43]

Partisans really shouldn't be any kind of a "problem" until December 1941 and then only to limited extent. Having to pull divisions out of the front line, beyond the normal garrison requirements, before then to deal with as yet unorganized cadres who were more concerned with finding food than killing germans, is a-historical and a huge problem for any CG. This needs to be fixed ASAP IMHO.

[Joel Billings]

It was fixed in 1.04.15.

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

It was fixed in 1.04.15.

Yep, fixed and working quite nicely. In the Summer of 43 there are about 8-10 outbreaks per turn and most can be immediately elliminated by city garrisons that zip out and back. The few that can't are easily squashed by about three LW divisions that have broken down into regiments and then been distributed through the rail net; any partisan that is within one hex of a rail line can be reached and squashed by at least three regiments. They are a minor nuisance and nothing more which is what they should be as long as you garrison properly.

Now I will say that, IMHO, any German player who puts his German or Allied Security Divisions in the line is making a mistake; they are not that useful in defense yet they have a double effect as garrisons. The only exception is the Slovokian Security Division which has a slight combat capability. I also find that the LW infantry are mostly good for gobbling up your manpower points (they don't even make good garrisons except in mass). However a LW regiment can squash a partisan as well as anyone so I use Security elements as garrisons and use the LW regiments as partisan chasers.

[James Ward]

Can you actually kill partisan units in the game? All I ever seem to be able do is push them around the map.

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

Can you actually kill partisan units in the game? All I ever seem to be able do is push them around the map.

Not really. When a combat formation moves adjacent they take losses and fade into the woodwork (like cockroaches). After that they need to build forces/accumulate supplies before they strike again. OTOH, if you don't make them fade they will continue blowing rail lines as long as you let them alone. I still don't know how far away from they unit they can cut a rail line, but it seems to be around ten hexes and up to 5-10 cuts per unit if they are strong enough. So stomp them quickly.

EDIT: Now this is just suppostition, but I believe that once a cadre forms there is no way to get rid of it. However the cadre needs to gain troops and supplies before it can grow to a partisan unit. There is no way to prevent supplies getting through (I have tried night fighters but I have never seen them get a transport) so they will grow and attack. All you can do is stomp them to keep them from attacking very often

[Helpless]

but I believe that once a cadre forms there is no way to get rid of it

Partisan units can get destroyed.

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

but I believe that once a cadre forms there is no way to get rid of it

Partisan units can get destroyed.

Helpless:

How can the Germans tell when they are destroyed?

[Helpless]

How can the Germans tell when they are destroyed?

There is no (easy) way to tell when particular partisan unit got destroyed. But it happens quite often when there is no valid place to displace them and/or if there is another partisan unit in the hex it was displaced.

[kswanson1]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

First partisan units created from shattered divisions which is historical. However recent fix in supply was made just before the release of the patch, so we didn't had much time to test it. Now we discovered that some partisans can become too strong too early. So they will be toned down.

I am getting the sense that the issue created from this particular patch lingers on within any games being played that employed the 1.04.11 patch. I have a couple PBEMs going, but only the PBEM in which we made the mistake of playing with the 1.04.11 patch am I seeing so much partisan activity.

Was anything done in the succeeding patch to dilute supply and\or morale increases within partisan cadres that were subjected to the 1.04.11 partisan accidental bonus code? In other words, did all those forest dwelling demolition experts keep whatever morale and supply benefits that received from the 1.04.11 patch even after the 1.04.12 patch?

Just wondering how permanently skewed partisan activity really is within one of my PBEMs -- the PBEM in which my opponent and I used the 1.04.11 patch?

I started another PBEM -- me as the Soviets. This was about a month ago, so it's never seen the 1.04.11 patch. Partisan activity thus far -- and it’s already December of 1941 -- has been zero. I've done extensive air supply of all cadres that can be reached by my air. 95% of my cadres are in the "green" for supply needs. Yet I have not seen any RR track attacks by these folks. Yet my other PBEM -- which had partisans contaminated by the 1.04.11 patch -- I was seeing Partisan cadres being very busy starting in August of 1941 -- from the patch issue presumably. But even after the patch Partisan Activity -- while reduced considerably from the 1.04.12 patch -- still continued to be pretty diligent about blowing up RR tracks in November, December -- Jan -- Feb and now into March. Which all has me wondering if the 1.04.11 patch left a permanent boost in Partisan morale and supply for any PBEM games played at any time with the 1.04.11 patch.

[Joel Billings]

For those that got the large number of partisans created with the patches that did this, then yes, you will have some more problems. The chance that the partisans will attack was reduced in future versions, but it will be worse if you have the extra partisans created in the earlier versions.

[kswanson1]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

For those that got the large number of partisans created with the patches that did this, then yes, you will have some more problems. The chance that the partisans will attack was reduced in future versions, but it will be worse if you have the extra partisans created in the earlier versions.

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

But a fair bit of understanding can occur as a result of internal testing and as part of an internal second party review process. Just saying...

[Joel Billings]

[:D] I hear you.

Well if we had a large enough test team and if we wanted to wait for a long time between releases and if we expected betas to be devoid of issues, then yes. However, we don't have a large test team, we don't want to wait a long time between releases, and playing the beta comes with some risk of new problems. We try to minimize the risk given the constraints we work under and the fact that we need the larger pool of public beta testers to see the impact of the changes. We don't like adding problems that screw up beta games, and we realize and appreciate the efforts and sacrifices of the public beta players in helping improve WitE. Unfortunately bugs and unintended consequences do often result from code changes, especially to a game this complex. My suggestion for players that saw partisans grow too much due to the changes in the earlier 1.04 versions is to have the Soviet players voluntarily pull their air units out of the airfields that fly respply to the partisans for some period of time (perhaps 3 months) and see if that slows them down some. I realize that this is not as good as code change, but there's no easy code change to be made to elminate the excess partisans from certain games (it would be hard to calculate what should be done). Hopefully it won't ruin your games. If you're not on the server, another approach would be to go back to an earlier save from before the problem version.