Stalingrad Campaign AAR

[Paul Vebber]

"But, we lose a Mk IV to a strongpoint in the Nail Factory and Sgt Kessler to mines. I am now totally sick the inability of Infantry to see AT Mines on concrete roads. *** "

They need to move the road kill out of the way covering it up!:p

I think we can link the ability to spot mines to the "firmness" of the ground so they are easy to spot on pavement.

The popping up next to a victory - well that is a scenario design issue...If it hurts - don;t do that! Unless you want to "guarentee surprise". The changes to infantry firepower will radically change the game in this regard becasue for the most part you don't "shoot a unt" but allocate fire to a hex (or hexes). Residual firepoweer like in ASL will remain in a hex so you can't take advantage of the IGO-HUGO nature of the game by moving one unit forward, letting it get toasted, and then moving the "good unit" up - or another, etc. until the enemy cries uncle and declares that no more firing will occur and they will just let you assult them.

You have to come from multiple directions (multiple hexes) now to do that, since any "folllow-up" units entering the hex that gets shot at first, will suffer a "residual firepower" attack, since they can't just wait until the firt unit and the defenders "turn is over" and then in efect "start a new turn" with the defender already out of shots.

THis will also prevent the need for "special opfire" except in rare cases. I already explained somewhere the new way "shots for guns and tanks is determined - theoretical sustained rate of fire - so in a 50m game a Sherman capable of 8 rpm and a veteran crew might have a base of nearly 40 shots, but only a portion of those do you have "tactical control" over (ie you get to shoot when you activate a formation) based on stance, the rest are used to opfire (which you have much more control over in CL). The number of "shot opportunities" that a given "shot" costs in variable, its close to 1 if you are firing successive shots at the same immobile target, shifting targets in close proximity costs a bit more. But if you start to turn the turret a lot, or it moves, or the taget is moving across the LOS (based on target angle unfortunately, but better than nothing) you lose shots based on turret traverse rate, and your commanders armor skill and your stance.

IF the Sherman above tries to shoot ahead, then swing the turret 180, then swing back, it would likely only be able to do that 4 or 5 times before its out of shots. At the 15m scale the turns are only one third as long so 'shots' are 1/3 as many or 1 and MAYBE two... (the time per turn in CL is a bit longer than in SP - 15m scale s about 1.5 min per turn and 50m is 4.5 min per turn - that is what movement points are based on.

AT guns are even more restricted in firing outside covered arc unless on a turntable (then they are darn near immobile). In a 15m game a poorer crew may not get a shot at all if they try to fire 180 out of covered arc. We've tried to link the time, movement and shots much more closely. That and the "alternating formation activation" sequence allows for a much more "interleaved" turn and a significant reduction in "gamey" situations where you take advantageof teh fact the other guy is "frozen" the whole time you move your men...oh and there is a possibility of "opmovement" as well as opfire, so if you do "go first" and try to catch a formation "frozen" it may get to move a hex after you shoot at it...

I think we will have most of this covered...but feel free to drop by the CL forum and gripe about other thiings that frustrate you!

[Alexandra]

Kill Leaders:

Sgt Krafft, Flampanzer II (40),
Sgt Langkeit, Flampanzer II (29)
2Lt Metzger, FlakPz Plt Ldr (21)

Yes, Krafft himself lived. He musta seen the AT mines on the road that the 40 infantry missed seeing and jumped out of the tank!

Mission Eleven:

Date: September 18, 1942
Time: 1400
Location: Stalingrad

Mission: The Grain Silo. Apparently, my SS task force is now working for Wonder We need to have the grain to make the bread

Support: 1 Scout platoon.

Aux Forces: 1 sniper

The Map: Mostly urban, with a mix of wood and stone builidings. 7 VHs. The Silo, a road hex west of it. (Why not the intersection one hex to the NE of that hex?), two other stone buildings, a patch of grass of the west of everything. (Why that hex? What makes that hex of grass special?), a triangular stone building south of the silo and a road leading to other parts of the city.

The Plan: I have to be careful. The VHs are way undervalued, at a total of 400 points for all 7. That means ya can't lose nothing! So, sneak, peak, and be careful. Each platoon will move in on an different axes, with 1 Flam, 1 Flak, 1 Stug, and 1 Mk IV for support. As I have just 2 Mk IVs, 2nd Platoon gets the Spec Ops as well.

Turn One:

First makes contact with 2 squads. 2nd makes contact with 4 more, plus an ATR and 2 MG squads. 3rd finds a MG nest which Krafft flames. Mortars called in, as they will be each turn.

Turn Two:

1st gets a squad and a MG team and drives back another squad. 2nd gets a squad but is facing a wall of defenders. 3rd Platoon has a very close call. Scouts discover a MG team, so Krafft rolls up to flame in, and, instead of shooting he rolls into the hex even though the shift key is not held down!! He survives, though, and rolls out, and flames out 2 NKVD squads, while crushing the MG under his treads! They also get a 5 man enemy sniper team.

Turn Three:

1st gets a Squad and Lt Kortenhuas' Stug gets stuck on a trail! Lol! 2nd gets an ATR team, a MG team and a squad and drives a MG and squad back. They take 2 VHs. 3rd gets a MG nest. *** Enemy platoon advance towards 3rds sector. They get the sniper. Sgt Albrecht and his FlakPz are killed by a pop up squad.

And that's scen. Almost assured a draw with a loss of a Panzer. And it's poor design. You *cannot* use ambush teams that pop up in the rear when you choose to make 7 VHs worth a total of 400 points. Especially given that the game engine does not recognize that pop up as movement! As the attack came from a road hex, I'll assume the sappers came from the sewers - and, in effect, none of the 10 man crew of the Flakpz noticed that and swing the quad 20mm cannon around to deal with it. Pop up are cool, when the VP total from VHs allows a casualty budget. When it does not - a design decision - then, the equal decision to not use them must be made.

Turn Four:

1st gets a MG nest and a squad. 2nd gets a MG team and a squad and takes the silo VH. 3rd takes the triangle VH

Turn Five:

Behind the lines, 1Lt Metzger and the gruppe HQ take out the first sapper squad. A second has popped up behind 2nd platoons MG 42 - which gets destroyed as it can't hit anything. Why are German MGs - the lifeblood of the Wehrmacht historically - so sucky in SP: WaW? On the field, 4 enemy squads and another VH fall. We have 5 of them.

Turn Six:

2 50/turn VHs pop up in the silo. Fortunately, the silos almost empty, so I should be able to get them and make up for the loss of Albecht. We take both hexes and kill 3 squads and an atr team. Only 1 VH left. *** Pop up squads! How fun. One pops up in one of the 2 VHs we just took - and, of course, even though it's not a move for reaction purposes, it is one for VH taking. They get the hex, get shot up, and 7 surrender, but, they get the 50 points, even though there's not a Russian in the silo at turns end. Bah. We lose a squad, a torn up one, to yet another pop up squad. *SFMB*

Turn Seven:

We kill 4 more squads and take back the VH. They still hold one, with 2 platoons behind it. *** We lose an engineer squad to enemy counterattacks. *SFMB*

Turn Eight:

We push on, and waste 4 more squads, take 5 more prisoners, and the last VH. *** And, another! Pop up squad!! It takes a per turn hex back, kills a recon team and gets shoved out of the Silo. 50 more Soviet points though. *SFMB*

Turn Nine:

We kill that squad - and retake the hex. *** And, it happens again. New one pops up, same spot. Gets shot up. But 50 more Russian points. They lose one, elsewhere, countering. *SFMB*

Turn Ten:

And we kill that one. And retake the hex. We also kill a sniper team. *** And, again. Same thing, same hex. 200 bonus points, so far, for the Russians.

Turn Eleven:

They die. We retake. Let's see if it happens again.

Nope. Scen ends, in the predicted draw.

2828 to 982. Now, if we take away the 200 Soviet cheese points, it's 3028 to 782 - a MV. That's what it should have been. Horrible design. Totally horrible. The limitations of the engine must be taken into account in scenario design. They clearly were not here. This is two in a row I've won, and won big, to only get draws. All the enemy had left, on this map, was a lone squad. He was, for the second straight fight, effectively wiped out, and yet I get draws.

And the snippy post game comment doesn't help my mood.

Losses:

German: 63 men, 3 AFV
Soviet: 439 men, 3 arty

PoWs: 12

Between scens: We get the Flampanzer and Mk IV platoons back to full strength and get a squad. We're down a MG 42 team, a Spec Ops team, an engineer squad and 2 FlakPz.

Next mission: Apparently 71st Division has lost part of Mamayev Kurgan Hill, which we so brilliantly siezed a wekk before, and so we need to retake it, with aid from them and 295th. It's a night assault and we'll be up against 42nd Guards.

Alex

[BryanMelvin]

I am surprised you managed a draw in the Grain Silo battle. The majority of test play results were Decisive Win's with an Elite status Core force. Marginal wins should be the norm too. This should have been an easy battle to win. I feel bad that you had a hard time of it at the Grain Silo and the scenario seemed poorly designed

There are tank traps in this and the key to win - Tank fire and Artillery - move tanks through wooden buildings to bring fire on Russki's. Yes - sewer movement occurs in this battle too..


- Remember - Sewer movement in Urban areas -

movement underground in sewers was a common theme in Stalingrad and Russki's can pop up anywhere just as German Special Ops can

Just like happened in downtown Stalingrad.

That's why those pesty Russki's pop up with surprises! Historicallly - German Infantry would often find themselves quietly try to rest and regroup in what they thought was a nice safe building, then, bang - Russians were amongst them in bloody hand to hand combat as if out of the woodwork.

Remember this when in Urban settings..

Note: Downtown Stalingrad Battles

Pavlov's house was not occupied by Pavlov until around September 19, 1942. The downtown Stalingrad battles in campaign are before Pavlov captured the house from the Germans and then defended it. The map name is merely for reference to it's location on map.

[BryanMelvin]

Be prepared for Draws in the Urban Fighting - the Tractor Factory Battles should be Marginal and Decisive Wins but it depends on what one does

Red barricades battles hmmmm...

they are a different story

[Alexandra]

Bryan, I didn't have trouble with it, that's the key to my gripe.

At the end of the battle, I held the field, and there were only a half dozen Russians, in one squad, on it, and they were fleeing. And, even had I killed them, killing every single enemy on the map, and, thereby, achieving a battle an anihilation, it still would have been a draw.

For the second time in a row, I, for all intents and purposes, wiped out the defenders and take all VHs and get draws.

Now, in the first scen, I'll accept high casualities leading to it. We did lose almost 600 men after all. Not this time.

Why?

Design.

Firstly, tank traps aren't an issue. I didn't notice any, and my key tanks were as effective as always. Arty, too, my mortar platoon did it's yeoman's work and heavily limited the enemy.

The issues I have are twofold. One, the 7 initial VHs are way undervalued. 7 VHs at a total of 400 VPs is an average of 57.1 points per hex. So, when the pop up squad got my FlakPz, it, in effect, made 3 of those VHs useless. That's why I predicted the draw, and I was right. That was on turn 3, before I had any VHs, I knew when the result would be. That's not good, but, it is basic math.

But, the big issue is the pop up squads inside the silo itself. Why is this an issue?

First, because they cannot pop up there, sewer lines or no. Why? Because Grain Silos cannot have sewer lines or basements. Grain is heavy. If you put anything other than solid ground under a silo, it collapses when full of grain. Hence, no way for them to pop up there.

Second, the comparing the pop up there with SpecOps infiltration is flawed. SpecOps may or may not appear, and when they do, if they appear in a VH, it does not change sides. Those squads appeared, via, I'd bet a reinformcement hex there, and were assured that they would show up.

So, no matter what the player does, the AI will get 200 VPs, minimum in the silo. No matter what. There is no way, because of engine limatations, to prevent that. Period.

So, before the game starts, half of the VPs the player can see do not matter. They are negated. Regardless of how well, or poorly, he plays, they are negated before he deploys his first unit.

Again, that's basic math.

Now, as many know, I hate draws. But, if I get fought well, don't get to everywhere, and the enemy has a coherent defense still, will I complain about a draw? No.

But, when I wipe them out - twice!, and take my objectives - twice!, and have a MV stolen by points given to the AI by design decisions, will I complain? Yes.

Alex - Go Pats! Take the Jets, then the 'fins and we're in!

[Grenadier]

This probably rests on playing style. In canvassing the grain silo from left to right the 2 hidden VO's are taken well before they show up on their own, assuring at oleast a minor victory. The Marines have a very high rally rating for their leaders and high morale. They were in the top of the grain elevator and the fighting there was over several levels in the elevator and the Guardsmen reinforced the grain silo from the east. If you want I will send you the original and you can play with it to improve the design as you see it.

Read William Craig's Enemy at the Gates or Anthony Beavor's Stalingrad for a full description of the grain elevator battles. Seveal players including most of the Raiders Arsenal tested and retested the scenarios in this campaign and they got mostly MV's with a few DV's. Artillery types make a huge difference

[BryanMelvin]

Yes, math was used in campaign design to reflect some of the frustration the German's felt inside Stalingrad

German forces would inflict massive casualties on the Russians and hold the ground but the few loses they suffered could not be replaced as fast as Russian loses could. In essence - attrition. Slow attrition. As the Battle of Stalingrad progressed, more German casualties occurred. Replacements became harder to come by. The total loss of a Tank or Flak wagon - became harder to replace. To reflect this in spwaw scale - German units are worth more points than Russian - even in default settings of game - German units are worth more points in the game. As Core force becomes Elite Status - they are worth more and more points.

Next, the Grain silo battle in this campaign was very hard to balance because so many players would be choosing a wide array and types of units for her/his core force with varied play styles too. The Core units would be Elite Status at this stage of game thus increasing their inherent Victory point cost. So a Stat's formula was used to determine Victory conditions. So far, it has worked well. Many players achieve a Decisive or Marginal wins in this battle. They report that they avoided loses to armor units as well as pull Infantry back that suffered heavy loses and won the battle. The Raider's that tested the battle reported that this battle seemed too easy unless they lost too many key units.

As for units popping up. This was a spwaw game system usage in order to bring reinforcements into the battle at key areas at the best-calculated turn of arrival. As I said before, use of Core force and playing style can effect this too. For example, air dropping units on a V-Flag may expose the entry of Reinforcements, the taking of a building (Grain Silo) a turn earlier than calculated will have units popping in. Also, remember that the Grain Silo was huge and the Russians held the upper floors and the Germans - the first floor for a time. So to reflect this multi level building - Russian units may pop in. Again, this is an spwaw game system issue. Again, when designing a scenario - one must use the flaws of a game system to try to reflect a real life event. Timing is difficult as the use of core forces and taking terrian areas early can have surprises.

Spwaw Game System determines a Marginal Win by having over a 3 to 1 point advantage over the AI or another human player. This is a game system flaw - it should be a 2-1.

Combat Leader will fix these problems but for now, we did the best we could with what we have to work with.

Also, the Stalingrad game is not a typical spwaw style campaign.
Some battles were calculated to be draws (using the system's 3-1 flaw). It is not easy to achieved a decisive Victory unless a battle was designed so. The campaign was designed to reflect the brutal nature of this battle, along with its frustrations, that the German commanders and troops felt during this battle. Also, it was designed to show how the German Army was unprepared for Urban combat at that time and how they adapted to it. This was no easy feat to simulate.

One maybe used to playing normal style campaigns in spwaw that acheive victory easy enough but this campaign was designed differently:

It can be fustrating

as the battle really was! This campaign (is) designed as a learning tool for a player to get a simulated taste and emotional feel of this battle without the true carnage of war.

If one is feeling frustrated - I suggest that one should take a few days off and then try it again. Learn from it. and note that --

Game system does not allow for Multi-level building effects sewers nor sneak attacks nor surprise ambushes but these can be simulated when units Pop on the map. Trick is - learn from it and plan for the unexpected as you play.

I guarantee if you finish this campaign, your spwaw gaming and overall wargame skill will improve to new levels! PBEM games will improve! Players will stand in awe of your skill and use of units!

[BryanMelvin]

One more point I forgot to mention was - Victory Flags! These are in scenario battles for a reason. Alex, please do not forget to include the total battle points and not just troop loses.

[Alexandra]

I always incude the points.

Alex

[Alexandra]

Happy New Year all.

Back to the City!

Kill Leaders:

Sgt Krafft, Flampanzer II (48),
Sgt Langkeit, Flampanzer II (36)
2Lt Metzger, FlakPz Plt Ldr (21)

Mission Twelve:

Date: September 19, 1942
Time: 0200
Location: Stalingrad

Mission: 71st Division has lost part of Mamayev Kurgan Hill, which we so brilliantly siezed a week before, and so we need to retake it, with aid from them and 295th. It's a night assault and we'll be up against 42nd Guards.

Support: 1 Btn 150mm OBA, Ammo Dump

Aux Forces: 1 105 Bty, 150 Bty, 1 FO, 1 Rifle Platoon, 4 Mk IVs, normal attached transport, 1 Btn Neb, 3 reinforced rifle companies

The Map: The Mamayev Kurgan map again naturally.

The Plan: A simple one. Advance on the hill. Kill baddies. Repeat.


Turn One:

The assault kicks off in the rainy night. My north company gets heavily hit by enemy arty and it's assault starts off slow. My center comapny is also disrupted, it's on the hill itself, and the limited visibility won't help much. We make contact south of the hill in a few places and kill an AAMG. Now, I wanna make a comment here. The Soviet pre game bombarment is very effective, basically plastering good parts of 2 companies. I've no problem with that as it is very logical that the Soviets would know, after days of fighting on the hill, roughly where the German positions would be and so, where to hit. However, the German bombardment, as set up in the bombardment menu, sucks. It's not concentrated at all, so it will not have any real effect, and, 2 of it's fire missions are smoke. On a visibility 3 map. That's just points for the Sov SMG squads. Now, I fixed it, so it'll have no effect on my game, but it is disappointing.

Turn Two:

On the north side of map, last turn we found a pillbox. It just happens to have back cover from a MG bunker, so that may be a problem. And we lose a complete squad, in 1 shot, to a SMG squad that just happens to be - yes, you guess it, right behind one of those pre game smoke hexes. In the houses south of the hill we hit Russians. On the hill itself, and just south of it, we slowly advance against the nicely deployed enemy squads and manage to get two of them and an ATG.

Turn Three:

Well, I'm in trouble in the north. Given the 4, so far, fortifications, and the fact my engineers are set up in such a place as to be out of position to take out any of them, I'm stuck. And, what are these four bunkers guarding? A 100 VP VH in a warehouse. So, we're backing off there. I'll lose more than 100 points trying to take it at this point. There are at least 316 points of units guarding a 100 point VH, and I'll bet another 120 or so in the warehouse itself. To the south, we are stymied for the moment, but that's only cause I wanna roll the line up, and I'm not gonna take unneeded losses. On and near the hill we advance where we can and kill 2 squads and a MG team. *** Enemy pressure on the hill, but we are holding.

Turn Four:

Quiet in the north, limited action to the south. On the hill itself, though, we taste success knocking out 2 bunkers, 3 squads, and a mortar squad and we may have broken through to the far south of the hill area, near the train tracks. *** Enemy counter attacks make no progress.

Turn Five:

Quiet south as we prep. Quiet north as we rally from arty. We stabilize our hill positions and kill 2 squads and a bunker. *** Enemy attacks are constant but parried.

Turn Six:

Still quiet north and south. On the hill we parry and push. 3 squads, 2 Maxim teams and an ATG gun go down. *** The enemy presses hard and loses 4 squads. But, it's a wash, as with a 9% assault, they get 1Lt Schaub. There goes a 19+ kill panzer. Lucky Russians.

Turn Seven:

To the south, we kill a squad and take the south most VH. Arty is slowing us, though, as much as the enemy, but fair is fair. On the hill we push back a pair of squads, kill one, and bump into KVs. South of the hill, we get a squad and a MG team, and start to assemble a small force that will sweep north, behind the hill. *** Well, the counterattack goes the enemy way. We get a squad. They get a track, 2nd Plt HQ (with a 4 kill KV MG shot), and 1Lt Kortenhaus's Stug.

Turn Eight:

On the hill, we take out three squads and press others back as we try and gain some sort of advantage here. South of the hill, we lose Sgt Schultz's Stug and a track. (How come Soviet infantry can move through cover terrain, directly at the front of a panzer, and get no reaction fire, but German infantry, moving in just as good cover terrain, to the flank of a KV-1, get spotted and engaged with no fire chance first?). Further south, though, we kill a bunker and an AA gun, and the flanking strike force is ready. In the housing complex, we get three squads and should soon secure it. *** They press hard and agressively. We lose a track and MG team 3. But, they lose a pair of KVs to close assaults, and have a third immobilized.

Turn Nine:

We secure the housing complex. On the hill, we knock out 3 enemy squads and the immobilized KV. South of it we shift and move but draw no blood. *** They press on. We get a squad, and 2 more KVs in close assaults. *SFMB*

Turn Ten:

To the far south, we knock out a pillbox and a MG nest in the housing area. On and around the hill, we get 3 squads and a KV. My flanking force (1 platoon infanty, 1 Mk IV, 3 Flampanzer) starts northeast, along the railway, and behind the hill. *** Soviet counterattacks result in no gains for the enemy.

Turn Eleven:

On and around the hill, six more enemy squads are destroyed. The flank force advances, and knocks out 4 more squads and takes a small hill VH. *** The enemy loses one squad in various counterattacks, including a one squad one in the housing area.

Turn Twelve:

We get 3 more squads on the hill and it's nearly secure. We also get the squad in the housing area. The flank force gets 3 more enemy squads. *** 4 more enemy squads are knocked out in thier attacks.

Turn Thirteen:

Quiet on most of the front. Flank force kills an AA gun and a mg team.

Turn Fourteen:

We kill a MG team on the hill and anothe with the flank force. *** Two more enemy squads fall on the hill.

Turn Fifteen:

We get the last 2 known hill squads. All hill VHs taken. Flank force gets the enemy HQ, a FO element and a pair of 82mm mortars, but loses the Mk IV to an ATG. However, 10 mortars are then directed on that ATg! Mww Haaa haa!

Turn Sixteen:

We get the ATG. *SFMB*

Turn Seventeen:

We take the next to last VH. Only the 100 point warehouse is in enemy hands. We kill three squads and a MG team surrenders. They lose one more counteratting, and it should have been two.

And it ends.

German MV!! Who Hoo!!! 8716 to 1978.

Our losses: 293 men, 3 APC, 4 AFV.
Soviet losses: 1095 men, 23 arty, 6 AFV. Wow, an enemy battaltion+ gone.

This was a hard fight. The limited visibility made it very rough, but, again, we take the hill!!

However, the poor way the Soviets tossed the KVs forward, into infantry armed with Panzerwurfermines allowed me to easily deal with them. But, 3 experienced Panzers were lost, though I think one crew made it out ok.

Between Scens: All infantry and Stug losses replaced. One more flakPanzer back. We are down 1 Mk IV and 1 FlakPz

Next Mission: A two pronged mission. I must hold the Red Square area, while relieving a trapped battalion of 71st Division, and then, with those men attached to my Ablietung, clear the banks of the Volga.

PoWs: 3 (56 on campaign)

Alex

My predicitions for Wild Card Weekend: Jets, Packers, Steelers, and Giants advance!

[BryanMelvin]

Only 56 POWs? Shame!

Impressed that you won a marginal. I designed this one and only can manage a draw at best

That is with about 15 times played!

The Arty strikes simulate the massive Artillery bombardments that ocurred on mav. kurg. hill by both sides. For this spwaw version, I had to tone these down a bit

Now you are off to more drity fighting in the City - this is Brent's masterpiece - Good Luck

[Alexandra]

Kill Leaders:

Sgt Krafft, Flampanzer II (51),
Sgt Langkeit, Flampanzer II (42)
2Lt Wiedemann, FlamPz Plt Ldr (26)

Elite Units:

1st Platoon: 2nd and 4th Squads.
Flampanzer Platoon: 2Lt Wiedemann, Sgt Krafft, Sgt Langkeit

Mission Thirteen:

Date: September 22, 1942
Time: 1000
Location: Stalingrad

Notes: Lt Kortenhaus survived the loss of his Stug on Mamayev Kurgan and is back in the saddle with a new one.

Mission: A two pronged mission. I must hold the Red Square area, while relieving a trapped battalion of 71st Division, and then, with those men attached to my Ablietung, clear the banks of the Volga.

Support: 2 FlamPz.

Aux Forces: 5 rifle platoon, 1 ATR platoon, 2 engineer platoon, 4 Pz III, 1 recon platoon, 2 mortar tracks, 1 battery 75mm, 1 battery 105mm, 1 Neb platoon, 1 FO, 1 Motorized FO, 2 37mm ATG, 2 88s, 2 Pz IVs, 2 Flak36, 4 Stuka flights, 2 sturm platoons, 2 motorcycle platoons, 1 HS-129 flight, 2 Marder, 2 Stug, 2 SP flak, transport

The Map: It's the train station map. We need to retake parts of Red Square and the Volga bank as well as the Bank and the Beer Factory.

The Plan: I'll deploy my core to move towards the Bank and Factory first, then South to Red Square. We'll work on hitting each objective en masse.

Pregame:

Stuka's kill a barge crossing the river.

Turn One:

Fighting in various parts of Red Square. In the garden area we kill a squad and engage more of them, while in the main Square, we lose an ATR team. Meanwhile, Core units advance. They kill 2 scout teams and a HMG team. *** The enemy presses heavily at the gardens, with a force I estimate at two rifle companies. They take both garden VHs, but lose a squad and a scout team in the process.

Turn Two:

A sturm platoon arrives and starts to the front. Along the way, it bags 2 sniper teams. Core and non core support units get 2 squads and a scout team, but a small track is lost. In the gardens, we attack and get 5 squads and a scout team and retake one of the VHs. In the Square itself, we get an ATR team. *** They seem to be in a little shock, from the force of the defense of the gardens, and the push slows. Each side loses a recon team. Then disaster nearly strikes! A stuka, called in to hit a building diverts about 500 meters west and strafes a squad and tank in the garden - fortunately, it had no bombs and we lose no men!

Turn Three:

Forces on the north bank of the Volga, who have been firing on the five barges crossing it, destroy one. The Sturm platoon spots a pair of 30 per turn VHs at the Train Station. A truck there already takes them and we divert a couple squads and, 5 tracks, to guard them. Second Platoon takes the State Bank. They will next move the the Volga, with the FlamPanzers, to clear the positions there. Spec Ops Platoon will hold the bank. Lt Kortenhaus' platoon, and an attached Sturm Platoon move south, and knock out a Scout team and a squad but also lose a squad (7 of 10 killed in 1 SMG shot!). In Red Square we get an AT gun, and in the gardens we push more, getting 2 squads and 2 recon patrols. They still hold one of the 20 per turn hexes, but I'm willing to give up 20 points, so that I don't lose more. We'll get it back soon enough, and with the loss of the barge, I know I made more than 20 this turn. *** The Soviets lose a barge to reaction fire. They also have men in the trainyard, and a tank enters the gardens.

Turn Four:

Core elements knock out a recon team and a 76mm ATG. At the train station, we kill two sapper teams, though the enemy has taken one of the VHs. Still, 3 Sturm Squads are nearly there, and the tracks have a nice perimeter around the other. At the Square, we bag a Molotov squad, and at the Gardens, we kill 2 squads, a recon patrol, and a T-26 and retake the 2nd VH. That attack, thus far, has been smashed. *** They lose a Squad, and a T-26, in the garden, and, it looks as if one barge has landed.

Turn Five:

The flampanzers knock out a HMG team and an 82mm Mortar Squad, as SpecOps takes over at the Bank. A 45mm ATG beyond the Beer factory is knocked out and 1st Platoon takes the factory. It will turn it over to some nearly Heer infantry and the 2 extra flampanzers to hold. Two more 30 per turn VHs have appeared at the train station. As the Gardens seem secure, the other 3 Sturm squads are diverted that way. And, these pop up VHs show why to *not* play this campaign with C&C on!. And that's not a criticism, just an observation. We kill a squad at the station. At the square, we get 2 squads and a MG team. We get a T-34 and a squad at the Garden while losing a squad. *** We lose a Stug and get a T-34 at the Garden. The Sov's have taken one of the deep per turn hexes at the Station.

Turn Six:

We knock out another 82mm mortar along the Volga. Gruppe Kortenhaus knocks out a 76mm ATG. Yet another point per turn VH (5 now) at the station. We kill a sapper team and take one back. So we have two and they have one. They'll have two this turn, though. We get an ATR team, 2 squads and 2 VHs in the Square and we bag another squad in the gardens. *** They lose a squad counterattacking, and 2 more barges set sail towards our side of the city.

Turn Seven:

First Platoon hands off the factory. Along the Volga we get a scout team, a MG team, a squad, and an 82mm mortar. We're gonna roll right up to the landing zone, kill whatever landed - infantry I think - and then blow the empty barges away. Gruppe Kortenhaus takes out 2 squads. In the square, we get a squad, a MG team, and an ATR team. We get another squad at the garden. *** There are now three barges crossing the river. The enemy loses 2 MG teams along the front. We lose a squad in the gardens. And it's totally ludicrous. The enemy moves one squad adjacent to one of mine, in the south VH. Enemy squad draws fire. Then, suddenly, the VH turns Soviet!! And a Soviet unit, in the hex, attacks and kills my squad. So it moved not 1, but 2 hexes, adjacent to my good order infantry and got to attack without drawing 1!!!!!!! reaction fire shot from the squad or the next door panzer!!!! Again, this is not a critcism of design, but, it is a bad part of the engine.

Turn Eight:

Along the Volga, we get 2 squads and an empty barge. I think all barge landed forces are dead. In the Square, we get an ATR team, 2 MG teams, and a squad and take a VH. We finish two squads in the garden and retake the lost VH. At the station, we kill a sapper team and snag back a VH. We have 3, they have 1. *** We get a sapper squad at the station, and the Luftwaffe gets a barge.

Turn Nine:

We destroy the last of the landed barges. At the square, we get 4 squads and an ATR team. We get another squad at the garden. At the station, we get a fourth VH. They hold one. *** At the station, we lose a squad and a track and they lose a sapper team. We get a squad at the gardens, and two barges die.

Turn Ten:

We get a barge with a FlakPz, leaving one, I can see, on the river still. We also kill a squad along the banks of the Volga we sweep there. We get two squads on the approaches to Red Square. On the south side of the bank we get another enemy squad. In and around the gardens another squad is bagged. We have a stalemate at the station. *** Fighting over varied parts of the city. We lose a track, at the station, to, get this, rifle fire! At 200 meters.

Turn Eleven:

We get a squad and a 50 mm mortar on the banks of the Volga. In and around Red Square, we bag 3 squads and a MG team and take the south bank VH. We get another squad in the gardens and yet another at the station. *** In fighting, they lose three squads, to our one. But, yes a but, one of those squads moved two hexes, the first adjacent to two units, then second the - occupied - south garden per turn VH. It died in that hex, yet, as we all know, the Soviets get the points for that turn. I am eagerly awaiting CL hoping, desperately, that it checks for VH control at the *end* of turns to get around that. *SFMB*

Turn Twelve:

We get a pair of squads on, or near, the banks of the Volga. We bag a MG team and a squad in the gardens, too. At the station, we get two more squads and an ATR team. And, as one barge is floating in the river, refusing to come be shot, I call planes down on it! *** Well, more Russians out of the woodwork. A platoon plus is coming from the south of the gardens. And, in the station, another platoon arrives. In the fighting in the station, they lose 2 squads, and we lose 1, and a track, and, again!!!! a squad of the enemies gets to enter an occupied!!!! per turn VH without drawing reaction fire. *SFMB*

Turn Thirteen:

We get four more squads in and around the Square. We get a sapper team at the station, but, basically, lack the manpower to do anything more there, unless the AI gets real stupid. *** Heavy fighting at the station, which costs me one, and them two, squads. *SFMB*

Turn Fourteen:

We get three more squads in, and around, the square. We kill a squad at the station and retake a VH there. *** They lose three more squads in the station. *SFMB*

Turn Fifteen:

We get three more squads in and around the square. *** They lose two more squads in station fighting. *SFMB*

Turn Sixteen:

We get one squad in the square and secure it, and five more with the flampanzers south of the garden. And, we take the whole station, killing 3 more squads there. *SFMB*

Turn Seventeen:

The last barge finally sails and gets blown out of the water by an 88. We get a MG and a squad near the park and a squad behind the station. *SFMB*

And the result is:

German DV!!! Whoo Hooo!! 11362 to 2142.

German losses: 218 men, 4 APC, 1 AFV.
Soviet losses: 1447 men, 10 arty, 12 APC, 11 AFV. I have to assume that some of the civilian vehicles count as APCs and that barges may be AFVs, cause there were only 4 tanks. All they had left on board was 1 squad, 2 50mm mortars, and the crew of another mortar.

PoWs: 0 (56 on campaign)

Comments: First of all, point per turn hexes were much too prevalent in this scen. PPTs are hard to test, and can lead to very unbalancing results, and most of the ones in the scen made no sense at all. A couple shouldn't have, IMO, been VHs at all.

However, my complaint, if one can call it that, is the fight at the Train Station. It is totally unneeded. It goes against the mission you have, and, all it does is make the scen have to be longer. And, at 150 per turn, there, you can't just ignore it.

Between scens: We are back to full strength. 2 Stug's upgraded to F/8s. 1 Flak Pz upgraded to SdKfz 10/4.

Next mission: We are attached to 24th Panzer for an attack on the Tractor Factory.

Alex

[Grenadier]

Hi Alex,
Very impressive!. Job well done. The discrepancy in AFV's is beacuse there were tanks on some of those barges. You took a route I do not think the average player would have, rolling up the riverbank from north to south. I tried that once but the losses to the cut off units were too painful and I felt it my duty to relieve my trapped comrades ASAP, a course I think the average player will take, unless they are reading this.

Your comments about the fight at the train station speak to the core of my changes to the redesign. You say it is not needed and goes against the mission in the battle. You are correct in that it plays against the main mission which is to relieve the trapped units on the Volga. Yet the battles in the city were unpredictable. The train station changed hands 22 times in the 2nd half of September and this battle reflects, IMO, the schizophrenic nature of the fighting in the city where the Germans would take a building and advance only to lose it to infiltrating Guards units later the same day. The point per turn hexes are the only way to effecftively illustrate this type of fighting.

Chuikov was constantly feeding in reinforcements to the critical areas and I also attempted to illustrate this as well as the simple fact that the Germans were being stretched too thin from earlier losses in the battle.

The opening description of Rattenkreig give an indication of what is to be expected in this battle. This is a technique I used in Lost Victories to prepare the player for the possibilities of what may or may not happen in the battle. The idea is to give the historical situation without telegraphing the way the battle will go, a very difficult undertaking.

"General Chuikov was still sending in reinforcements to the units of Rodmitsev's 13 Guards Rifle Division which had been nearly destroyed in the week's fighting since it arrived in Stalingrad on Sept 14. During this time Rodmitsev's guardsmen succeded in breaking the German hold on the Volga east of The train station and the central train station changed hands 13 times, 5 times in one day alone as the Russians defended the city with a stubbornness never shown before. Paulus was forced to halt LI Korps attack to the north and ordered Seydlitz to clear out the city center once and for all. Paulus' losses were escalating rapidly and whole batallions were down to the size of companies in a single week of street fighting. Nothing was conceded by the Russians. They used the sewer system to get into the German rear areas, shooting up supply trucks and unit headquarters. The Germans would clear a whole block and proceed to the next when a machine gun would shoot at them from behind as the Russians worked their way back into the just cleared block and force the Germans to retake it all over again. Companies and whole batallions would be cut off for hours or days until a renewed attack would reestablish contact. From the east side of the Volga, Russian artillery and katyushas would keep up a constant fire on the German positions, whittling their numbers down even more.*
*
The Germans, unused to this type of fighting, coined a name for it, Rattenkreig, the war of the rats. Losses soared as they had to deal with the counterattacks from the constant flow of reinforcements crossing the Volga. The Luftwaffe and artillery sank many of these ferries, but enough got through to keep the Russians alive in the city. Most of the landsers had not fought in close quarters like this, except for the veterans of the Kiev battle the year before. After the costly fighting there, Hitler had vowed not to ever attack a Russian city but instead to surround and starve them into submission after 6th Army had suffered so heavily in the streets of Kiev. A year later the 6th Army was again embroiled in bitter street fighting with an enemy that has grown even more cunning and vicious."

I think my orders to the player make it clear to expect the unexpected in this battle as well.
*
"Commander, a batallion of 71 Infantry Division has been cut off on the Volga bank. Your orders are to reestablish contact with the batallion and then clear the bank of the enemy to the north and south and eliminate the pockets of resistance in the city center. We need control of the river bank in order to interdict the constant ferrying of reinforcements to the Ivans still in the city center and take control of Stalingrad once and for all. Do not leave the area around Red Square unguarded as the Ivans keep trying to retake this sector and drive towards the train station. Choose the location of your main effort. Transportation will be provided to shift your forces around the city."

There are small hints of potential trouble spots in the deployment such as engineer squads removing mines near the train station and the buildings being on fire so the player is not totally taken by surprise.

The fact you got a DV in a battle which I designed to get a draw for the average player and the testers never got better than marginals is in itself a testimonial that nothing is predictable in this battle. It was designed to force the player into some choices that will have repercussions one way or the other. Do I use my artillery and aircraft to interdict the barge crossings or to smash the attack at Red Square? Do I attack to clear the riverbank from north to south and let the cut off forces hold out longer or do I attack from the city center to the Volga toi relieve the forces right away? How big is the attack in the south and how much of my core do I use there? How many reinforcements are in the barges and do I try to sink them or let them land? Do I leave the engineers to removing mines or do I move them to Red Square or into the Train Station?

I am sorry if my design philosophy is not agreeable to you, Alex. Just be prepared for more PPT's iun the next series of battles

[Alexandra]

*grin*

I don't disagree, from a design standpoint, for the fight there. I'm not overfond of the PPT there, but, were I commander of 71st ID, and needed to save my boys, I'd task someone else - not the rescue force - for the station

The station fight ended up being the main fight, as I tossed in whatever infantry I could spare, ended up being 9 squads, and the track platoon, and late game, a few panzers, into it.

I was suprised there was no pressure on the guys on the Volga bank. Though, that attack via the gardens could mess someone up if they moved east on turn one.

Really, the only VH I didn't agree with the the *German* one in the Gorki Theater. I got, what, 300+ VHs there, and it was never threatened.

Overall, though, I liked this one.

Next up - the Tractor Factory!!!

Alex

[Alexandra]

Kill Leaders:

Sgt Krafft, Flampanzer II (58),
Sgt Langkeit, Flampanzer II (48)
2Lt Wiedemann, FlamPz Plt Ldr (36)

Elite Units:

1st Platoon: 2nd and 4th Squads.
Flampanzer Platoon: 2Lt Wiedemann, Sgt Krafft, Sgt Langkeit

Mission Fourteen:

Date: October 14, 1942
Time: 0800
Location: Stalingrad

Mission: We are attached to 24th Panzer for an attack on the Tractor Factory.

Support: 1 flight Hs 123, 1 flight FW 189A-1.

Aux Forces: 2 Recon Platoon, 1 FO, 1 Battery 105, 1 Battery 150, 2 mortar tracks, 1 mortar platoon, 4 rifle platoons, 4 Panzer III, 4 Panzer IV, 3 Rifle Company, 2 Flampanzer, 4 Engineer Platoons, 2 Spec Ops Platoons.

The Map: The map is a heavily urban one. I am moving west to east, with my objective a series of buildings in the Factory. I have to take (from south to north, and west to east): A pair of assembly buildings, Assembly Hall Two, Assembly Hall One, an unnamed building, a Repair Shop, a Lab, and an Iron Foundry.

The Plan: My core can come in from the south and shall do so. Aux forces move in from the west. We shall use arty liberally and leave forces behind to secure VHs. All VHs are end of battle ones, except one. The nameless building has a 20 per turn VH. Why??? If it's not important enough of a building to have a name what makes it's possession any more critical than any of the other buildings?

Pregame: Arty and air strikes. Air is inffective, as it tends to go after eye candy, though it inflicts some losees.

Turn One:

We push forward and lose two recon teams. However, we kill 2 MG teams, a MG nest and a T-70 tank. Luftwaffe detects T-34s behind the factory and enemy infantry to the north.

Turn Two:

We advance and knock out a 45mm ATG, a T-70 and a DHSK team. We also knock out a log rifle pit. *** T-34s advance.

Turn Three:

We get a MG team and a MG nest. The advance is painfully slow. *** Soviets do some tentative advancing.

Turn Four:

Aux Spec Ops Squad infiltrates. We knock out a log rifle pit and a MG team. We push into the first set of assembly buildings where we disvcover 2 20 per turn VHs. We kill off a squad and another 45mm ATG. *** The enemy pushes in more agressively.

Turn Five:

Another Aux Spec Ops squad infiltration. We press on and start to inflict more losses. We kill off 2 MG teams, an ATR team, a 50mm mortar squad, a sniper team, a log rifle pit, 3 T-70s and 2 T-34s. We have a foothold in Assembly Hall Two. We lose yet another recon team. *** They lose a squad countering.

Turn Six:

3 more infilitrating squads arrive. We press deeper into the complex, fighting as we go. 4 squads, 4 MG teams, 2 45mm ATGs, and a T-34 die. We take the component assembly areas and enter the repair shop. *** We lose a Spec Ops squad to enemy counterattacks and they lose an ATR team.

Turn Seven:

Two hidden, per turn VHs, have popped up in Assembly Hall One. We kill a squad, a 50mm mortar, an 82mm mortar, and a T-34 and we lose another SpecOps Squad. We are contesting AH 1, AH 2, and the Reapir Shop. We take the nameless building. *** We get another squad and a molotov team. Pop up squads appear. No real suprise that.

Turn Eight:

11 more enemy squads die. We also get a 50mm mortar squad. We take Assembly Hall Two. We lose a squad. Now, here I have a complaint. In not one, not two, but *three* different hexes, enemy squads that popped up engaged my troops in HtH. That's fine and is rather cool of the AI to initiate. However, in my turn, none of my men, in any of those hexes, knew that Russians were there!!!!! They are fighting at knife range, yet, lose spotting???? That's clearly a huge engine flaw. *** They lose a squad and a sniper as they counter agressively, and we lose a squad.

Turn Nine:

5 squads, a sniper team, and a T-34 die. We lose an aux flampanzer. *** We kill a sniper and a squad. However, we lose a squad, surrendered! - to that sniper.

Turn Ten:

We get an ATR team and 2 squads. However, for the most part we are stalemated. *** They lose 4 more squads and 2 molotov projector teams and we lose a squad.

Turn Eleven:

We get a bunker, a sniper and 4 squads. We lose a squad. We have half the repair building and most of AH1 for all that will matter. *** They lose 4 more squads, and a molotov team and we lose one. We now have to retake VHs in AH2, as two molotov teams popped up, at the end of the game, in VHs.

Turn Twelve:

We get the other molotov team and retake the VHs. We get another squad and take another repair shop VH. *** They lose two more squads and an ATR team.

Turn Thirteen:

We kill two more squads and take the repair building. *** They lose 3 squads and the VH, but retake a VH in AH2. *SFMB*

Turn Fourteen:

We consolidate and get a squad. *** They lose a squad.

We somehow pull off a MV with a score of 9240 to 2293.

German Losses: 315 men, 1 AFV.
Soviet Losses: 925 men, 19 arty, 17 AFV

PoWs: 0 (56 on campaign)

Between Scens: Last Stug upgraded, one more FlakPz upgraded.

Next Mission: Oh, we get to try and take the factory again.

Alex

[Grenadier]

The nameless building has a 20 per turn VH. Why??? If it's not important enough of a building to have a name what makes it's possession any more critical than any of the other buildings?

The building overlooks the open railyard and has a good field of fire. It also protects the center between the Repair shops and the Assembly Halls.

Now, here I have a complaint. In not one, not two, but *three* different hexes, enemy squads that popped up engaged my troops in HtH. That's fine and is rather cool of the AI to initiate. However, in my turn, none of my men, in any of those hexes, knew that Russians were there!!!!! They are fighting at knife range, yet, lose spotting???? That's clearly a huge engine flaw. ***

Think of those squads that could not spot the Russkies as regrouping behind a giant lathe with the Ivans on the other side. Did you try the z key in the same hex? That will usually bring them out again. It is very difficult to emulate close in fighting in this game and the hexes are covering 50 square meters. There was a lot of equipment to hide behind in the factories.

[Alexandra]

Originally posted by Grenadier
The building overlooks the open railyard and has a good field of fire. It also protects the center between the Repair shops and the Assembly Halls.


lol!!! After first contect there's no LOS anywhere in the complex. 1 hex constantly


Think of those squads that could not spot the Russkies as regrouping behind a giant lathe with the Ivans on the other side. Did you try the z key in the same hex? That will usually bring them out again. It is very difficult to emulate close in fighting in this game and the hexes are covering 50 square meters. There was a lot of equipment to hide behind in the factories.

Well, yes, I could see that - if those men, assumed to be hiding behind lathe's could not attack my guys outside the building. As I said, it's an engine flaw, not a design one - and even if they were hiding behind lathe's, my men would know they were there, i.e., in the hex.

I did not.

Until they fired.

Alex