4.5 OOB Note and Comment

TheOriginalOverlord · Post by **TheOriginalOverlord** » Sun Dec 24, 2000 5:40 am

Posted this over on the OOB forum but traffic is slow.

In an earlier post I mention the US 60mm mortars http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/003083.html
they are basically identical but the game has one with normal range and the other with a much shorter range.

Also, in the FJ squads one has an FJ Gewehr 42 and another has an FG42. In the OOB these weapons are identical in performace. the proper name would be the FG 42 one.

In both cases you could remove the offending weapon and free up just a little more room in the OOB's

If you freed up one of those rifles slots you could then make it a "triple" 151/15 same range and accuracy just up the HE kill by 3 to simulate the three single 151's the 251/21 now has.
HTH

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Semper Fi!

Overlord

[This message has been edited by Overlord (edited December 23, 2000).]

Hauptmann6 · Post by **Hauptmann6** » Sun Dec 24, 2000 5:46 am

Arralen, what I was saying is it should have 1 triple 15mm mount like the US quad 50s not 3 seperate single 15s. Having 3 shots makes the vehicle much more powerfull than it shoul dbe as compared to the M16 quad 50.

S35 · Post by **S35** » Sun Dec 24, 2000 5:41 pm

I have v4.5 and I notice that Stug H-42 are no more available in stug Co plt or sec or anywhere.
Thanks to Matrix team for the joy of play it give to me.

Happy Christmas

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Dec 24, 2000 7:35 pm

No Russian Cossacks! At least I can't find them! ARGH!

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Blackbird · Post by **Blackbird** » Sun Dec 24, 2000 7:49 pm

Yes you can, but only 'til the end of 1941.
But why are no SO Marines available for buying? Where should they be? I can only upgrade to them.

Charles22 · Post by **Charles22** » Tue Dec 26, 2000 7:15 pm

Peregrine Falcon: Hurricane? Hadn't noticed, I wasn't sure any air force had ATGs mounted on the planes, other than the Gerrys and possibly the Sturmovik for the USSR.

Paul Vebber: Yeah the penetration of 134 is most definitely too high, but if nothing else, the 37mm and 75mm gun penetrate the same. No matter what different system is being used for tank busting (I use the term "busting" loosely, because though I don't have extensive play with the tank-busters, it seems that they don't bust any, even on top hits) those two guns should have some difference I would think. There's another Ju88 which has a 50mm gun, and I don't think it is on the 12 low end either. How does this compare to the rockets, or are the rockets on yet a different penetration system?

[This message has been edited by Charles22 (edited December 26, 2000).]

Peregrine Falcon · Post by **Peregrine Falcon** » Tue Dec 26, 2000 8:39 pm

Hurricane IID, equipped with 40mm Vickers Class "S" 40 mm gun (IIRC firing AP/APCR/HE)

More here: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/sgun.htm

I'm pretty sure it was in SPWW2 OOB's - so where is it now??

If I remember correctly it was pretty effective against tanks in North Africa and served also in Far East (mainly against transports at sea & trucks)

Originally posted by Charles22:
Peregrine Falcon: Hurricane? Hadn't noticed, I wasn't sure any air force had ATGs mounted on the planes, other than the Gerrys and possibly the Sturmovik for the USSR.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Tue Dec 26, 2000 10:34 pm

Arralen - I have to check to code, but I think aircraft ar still using cm instead of mm, so you have to divide the "real" penetration you want by 10. I will try t find out, but it may take a few days...pretty busy this week!

[This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited December 26, 2000).]

Charles22 · Post by **Charles22** » Tue Dec 26, 2000 11:07 pm

Paul Vebber: So if I understand you correctly, the JU88 with the 75mm gun, should have a pen. of 13.4, correct? Still, that doesn't account for the 37mm on the Stuka (which if the '12' is stated in cm, should mean 12.0 [or 120mm - way too high I suppose]) and the 75mm on the HS129 being the same 12 rating.

BlitzSS · Post by **BlitzSS** » Tue Dec 26, 2000 11:27 pm

quote:
---------------------------------------------Originally posted by BlitzSS:
I’ve also noticed that this same gun out ranges the 37mm (range of 30 hexes) by 5 hexes. I can try to research this again, or try to find my old tables from when I made PZ Leader counters with Grant/Lee tanks. What I found went against what my instincts told me, and that is that the 37mm (in the Grant/Lee tank only, and not the Sherman’s 75) out ranged the 75mm. This was mostly, if not entirely, due to the optics, because the fact that the 75mm gun was hurriedly fitted into this framework to race this badly needed retrofit out to N. Africa
---------------------------------------------

hey blitz, just a confirmation that you aren't going nuts. i pulled out my old AH tobruk game and checked the ranges for the grant tank. (Desert has always been my fav theatre and not coincidently the grant and pzIIIj my favorite tanks). The 37mmM6 has a max range of 2025 meters (27 hex range at 75 metres per hex) while the 75mmM2 has a max range of 1750 metres (17 hexes).
happy hunting
--------------------------------------------
Here is the math to an OOB problem plaging some of my designs.

jsaurman · Post by **jsaurman** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 12:10 am

I have noticed that when you look at a unit specifics in the "buy units" screen, below the small icon that represents the vehicle, there is garbled numbers representing the right side thickness, and also the right turret thickness. I don't know if this is something in the graphics or OOB.

Also in some years (like soviets about 1944), the buttons for choosing armor or infantry run off the bottom of the page. Sometimes there are buttons for classes like "Tracked FO" that do nothing.

Also I wish that all the Infantry could be grouped together, and all armor together. The way it is now, you have Light Tank and Heavy Tank Together, then you have Medium Tanks off somewhere on some other page altogether. Not a fatal flaw but annoying.

Another change I would like to see is the ability to buy just ONE of something. Tanks, trucks, guns, all are sold in multiples of two or four or more. What if I just want ONE??? You used to be able to buy a single med truck, you can't anymore!

I am sure I will have more comments, but that is all for now.

Warhorse · Post by **Warhorse** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 12:30 am

The reason for the run-off is too many formations for the buy screen page. At one time in one of the builds, there was a next button, but it must have caused problems as it no longer is there. You can only have 28(I think) max formations on the particular buy screen. That is also why there are some tank formations in other buy screens, iemisc, or whatever. I personally would have liked to see larger oob's, and buy screens with the next button like SPWW2, but you can only mess with the exe. so much, and you can see by the bugs that pop up already what the consequences are with doing anything at all to the existing exe.!!

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Mike Amos
Meine Ehre Heisst Treue

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 1:28 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peregrine Falcon:

Is British tank buster Hurricane there?

It is available with RAAF. Hurricane IID with 40mm cannon. Buy it there.

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 1:31 am

Originally posted by Blackbird:
Yes you can, but only 'til the end of 1941.
But why are no SO Marines available for buying? Where should they be? I can only upgrade to them.

Looks like a minor fix is necessary for the Soviets.
I can put the Cavalry back in and make the marines available. I don't think the Marines should have infiltration capability. It was reclassing them to "Marine" that made them unavailable since there was no Marine formation.

Any other comments on Soviet?

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 1:38 am

Originally posted by Joe Osborne:
Looks like a problem with USMC 155 Gun Bty (not the 155 How Bty above it) it only contains the 75 mm How OBA no 155 at all....

Joe Osborne

155's only available from 6/43
75's available before that.
Historical?

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 1:46 am

Originally posted by Slayer:
I don't think that the Soviet OOB allowed me to buy Heavy AA-guns (76.2mm, 85mm).

These are classed as Heavy Flak.
Have taken note and will correct.

Please note: USSR OOB was not fully checked.
Only a few minor changes were made. Unfortunately, these created some new problems which will be fixed in time- soon I hope!

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 1:57 am

Originally posted by Arralen:
It's the Spw-251/21.

It does have a triple Mg 151 mount, correct.

There are two different Mg151 in the OOB:

w#220 MG 151/15 range:100 acc:44 w-head:2 Hekill:12 PenHE:27 (AA gun)

w#238 MG 151 range:24 acc:40 wh:2 HEkill:5 PenHe:30 (A/C gun)

The spw251 uses the first one .. in slot 1..3; could be that the HEkill is a bit too high, but have a look at a .50-AA-MG:

range:80 acc:36 wh:1 HEkill:12 PenHE:24

???

Comment please, Paul ?

Arralen

Why would a triple weapon have lower range or penetration that a single weapon. The Warhead size should not be reduced.
I would copy weapon 220 to a vacant slot (Maybe the duplicate FG 42 slot). Rename it appropriately to reflect the triple gun.
Then increase HE Kill to not greater than 36. See other multiple weapons in other Nations to see how they were handled.

The SPAA Unit should have only one such weapon.

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:05 am

Originally posted by BlitzSS:
quote:hey blitz, just a confirmation that you aren't going nuts. i pulled out my old AH tobruk game and checked the ranges for the grant tank. (Desert has always been my fav theatre and not coincidently the grant and pzIIIj my favorite tanks). The 37mmM6 has a max range of 2025 meters (27 hex range at 75 metres per hex) while the 75mmM2 has a max range of 1750 metres (17 hexes).
happy hunting

The US Lee Tank (unit 17) has the same range for the 75mm gun (1750m-35 hexes) but the 37mm gun has a lower range (1500m-30 hexes). I have no answer for that.

[This message has been edited by Major Destruction (edited December 26, 2000).]

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:27 am

Originally posted by jsaurman:

Also in some years (like soviets about 1944), the buttons for choosing armor or infantry run off the bottom of the page. Sometimes there are buttons for classes like "Tracked FO" that do nothing.

Another change I would like to see is the ability to buy just ONE of something. Tanks, trucks, guns, all are sold in multiples of two or four or more. What if I just want ONE??? You used to be able to buy a single med truck, you can't anymore!

I am sure I will have more comments, but that is all for now.

Can you specify which month you find the menu runs off screen? I see Lend Lease Co at the bottom of the armour screen in 1944. This is the last formation. There is nothing below that.
You will find some TOE-accurate Regiment size armour units in the "Misc" menu. They are there only because the armour menu is full. I used the Misc menu as an overflow. You will find similar 'problems' in the other major powers where AA may occur in the Artillery menu or the Misc menu- whatever is convenient.

Personally, I am happy just to be able to get all the armoured car formations together, then the Lt Tanks, etc....It's not easy. I don't know why it's not easy, it's a mystery how some nations fit together with no problems while others never seem to work well. We do the best we can in the time available.

You may have single trucks if you wish, but only until I fill up all the slots in all of the purchase menus..........
Mike's answer explains the problem.

If you want to buy a single tank (unit) for generated battle play, spend all your points on expensive items allowing only sufficient points to buy that one tank. Then delete all the expensive items and repurchase your force. It's a workaround I sometimes use if I want to buy only one Tiger, for example, in a battle where I have limited points.
Alternatively, you can buy a company of tanks and delete all the platoons, leaving the command tank in your roster.

Hope this helps.

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:33 am

Originally posted by jsaurman:
. Sometimes there are buttons for classes like "Tracked FO" that do nothing

Tracked FO units are not available prior to 6/42 although the formation has room for one from 1930. These 'ghost' formations are difficult to deal with and annoying to encounter in the purchase screen, but we are trying to eliminate them.
Worse is a ghost formation that should have units available, or units that are available but not assigned to a formation (such as the Soviet Marines). I need to know of these so I can fix the problems.
Please keep sending your comments.