Bugs in production system sucks up ARM

[Helpless]

What should you do if you're on turn 131 and out of armaments since long ago?

Enjoy the life which permits of playing that much .. even without armaments

[Helpless]

Can somebody tell me what the real effects of this bug are? Will the units in my pool decrease faster as normal? Will I get fewer replacements?

Armament points are consumed in very high quantities by the production of elements which are designed by data team not to be produced. As the result less is left for other items. It has biggest effect when you start a game with big ARM surplus as it was in 1941 campaign.

[Flaviusx]

I'm just glad the mystery has been solved. This armaments thing was bugging me for a long time.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I'm just glad the mystery has been solved. This armaments thing was bugging me for a long time.

Yes, thanks gingerbread!

[Joel Billings]

Here's the situation as best I can describe it. Using the new patch that should be out by tomorrow, the Germans will start with 500k less in armaments. However, it is expected that around 75 of the 9999 cost 47mm guns will be built during 1941. If you have already started a game, and you have 50 of these guns built, you will have lost 500k in armaments. You should hold off until the patch is released and then continue on. If you have built more than 50 of these guns, you will net out less armaments than if you did a restart, but should probably just continue on with your game. If you have not yet built 50 of these guns you have a choice. If you have just started, you may want to restart. If you are already a few turns into the game, then you can continue on. The closer to having 50 guns built when you switchover to the new version, the closer you will be to matching the way a new game will play out using the next version. I hope that helps. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks to the person that identified this bug. This was a case of code never being written to match the agreed upon plan with the data guys (that cost 9999 items would be blocked from production). Once we identified the problem, we decided to take advantage of the chance to slightly increase German armaments points in 1941 since we were running a little lighter than we wanted.

[larryfulkerson]

It appears that there are several equipment types that have the same 9999 build cost that the 47MM AT gun has. Are they going to
be "fixed" too?

[larryfulkerson]

There are some 9999 items on the Russian side as well that need some attention.

[Joel Billings]

The code has been added so that these elements will never be built. The 47mm AT gun is the only one I know of that was being built. If you have evidence that some of the other weapons were being built, please post this info with how many and when they were being built. Thanks.

[gingerbread]

If the chosen way to fix this is to ensure that they are never built, what happens when the 47mm (and other 9999 elements) becomes obsolete and is scrapped, will the player recieve ARM points based on the 9999 cost? Even a scrap value of 10% will yield 1k each...

Further, since the build cost is in ARM points, there are other ground elements that ought to be re-evaluated. I mentioned CAV above, and there are others that are not based on a "big item". These appear to have been priced in terms of SUPPLY points. Specifically, a German CAV squad costs 65 vs. a German Rifle squad which costs 8. They have similar equipment except for the horses and my point is that horses are not manufactured in gun factories!

[Helpless]

If the chosen way to fix this is to ensure that they are never built, what happens when the 47mm (and other 9999 elements) becomes obsolete and is scrapped, will the player recieve ARM points based on the 9999 cost? Even a scrap value of 10% will yield 1k each...

You are not getting 100% of build cost when scrapping happens - just 1/3 at best. Also most of the 9999 equipment has end date of 1945. But otherwise it should be restricted as well.

Further, since the build cost is in ARM points, there are other ground elements that ought to be re-evaluated. I mentioned CAV above, and there are others that are not based on a "big item". These appear to have been priced in terms of SUPPLY points. Specifically, a German CAV squad costs 65 vs. a German Rifle squad which costs 8. They have similar equipment except for the horses and my point is that horses are not manufactured in gun factories!

I think this is done intentionally. Good horses required for the military service were (and still are) very "expensive". Since we deal with automatic production items, this is the only way to control the output.

[gingerbread]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

If the chosen way to fix this is to ensure that they are never built, what happens when the 47mm (and other 9999 elements) becomes obsolete and is scrapped, will the player recieve ARM points based on the 9999 cost? Even a scrap value of 10% will yield 1k each...

You are not getting 100% of build cost when scrapping happens - just 1/3 at best. Also most of the 9999 equipment has end date of 1945. But otherwise it should be restricted as well.

Very well, we'll just have to see if any AAR reports an increase in ARM when the 47 mm is upgraded to the 75mm. With 1/3 as scrap value, 20 (say) surviving 47 mm would give 65k ARM. Perhaps an event log item could be added, something like: so-and-so many elements was scrapped yielding this-many ARM points? It does not have to list every item, just the totals. I admit that I have no idea of the amount of coding required for this. It could be useful in catching further bugs.

Further, since the build cost is in ARM points, there are other ground elements that ought to be re-evaluated. I mentioned CAV above, and there are others that are not based on a "big item". These appear to have been priced in terms of SUPPLY points. Specifically, a German CAV squad costs 65 vs. a German Rifle squad which costs 8. They have similar equipment except for the horses and my point is that horses are not manufactured in gun factories!

I think this is done intentionally. Good horses required for the military service were (and still are) very "expensive". Since we deal with automatic production items, this is the only way to control the output.

I agree that good horses are rare and therefore expensive. But is the intent visible in the effect? The ss with the 555k ARM pool above shows over 650 CAV squads built. That's 40k+ ARM, but they are getting built - no rareness simulated. I realize this would be blasphemy to purists, but I suggest that CAV is simply removed from the TOE of the Infantry divisions. Those that had them historically can keep what they have, but only the Cav formations get replacements. The cost must be huge to the Axis allies that fields multiple Cav formations, and once it it realized that Soviet CAV squads consumes ARM (69 pts ea.), I predict a drastic decrease in the number of Cav Corps used.

Another scource of ARM pt drain are the various Mech Inf. Here I have no good qick fix to suggest. But since the armed half tracks consumes SUPPLY via the factory routine and not ARM, it begs for a change.

Sorry for beeing a PitA, I do enjoy the game.

g/

[Michael T]

I am in a game at turn 26. No way I want to start again thats for sure. So how will the new patch affect me? I mean am I going to get some kind of Arm boost to make up for all the wasted points up to now? I ran out of Arm points about turn 5 or 6. Is it possible to put in your fix a refund of Arm points based on how many of these guns have been produced? That would seem fair.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I am in a game at turn 26. No way I want to start again thats for sure. So how will the new patch affect me? I mean am I going to get some kind of Arm boost to make up for all the wasted points up to now? I ran out of Arm points about turn 5 or 6. Is it possible to put in your fix a refund of Arm points based on how many of these guns have been produced? That would seem fair.

It should be noted that this bug has been in the game since the beginning, and thus, the Armament point stockpiles that were given to the Axis at the start of the 1941 were scaled in part to try and offset the heretofore unknown cause of the armament drops that were being experienced by players. The rise in usable armament points in 1942, for the Axis, coincided, nay were caused by, the 9999 equipment not being produced any longer, because of the end date.

Thus, as you're already this far into a game, you've already been pretty much compensated for the wasted production points. When this bug is fixed and released, the starting Armament stockpiles for the Axis will be majorly reduced.

[Michael T]

I see. So would it be fair to say that with the fix coming soon that my Wehrmacht will be ok coming in to the 42 summer, all else being equal?

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I see. So would it be fair to say that with the fix coming soon that my Wehrmacht will be ok coming in to the 42 summer, all else being equal?

Should be.

[heliodorus04]

Happy with fixes. Good damage control.

[KenchiSulla]

Good job guys!

[anthonykevinluke]

Game halted ..... waiting for fix ......... need fix ...........

Sorry, not really hassling! Thanks for the good work.

Regards,

AKL

[BletchleyGeek]

Really good catch and really good to see devs on the ball

[MechFO]

Now that proper ARM balancing can commence, will the German Div's receive their full Artillery TOE instead of the 75% they have now from 42 onward?