Powerful Panzers

[freeboy]

yes.. they are a game breaker.. in solo we can iliminate them.. but in multiplayer its a tough one..
especially given they can eat cities.. cap the strength and nerf them attacking cities.. this is a fun game and will be a great mp game if we can tweek this

[oldspec4]

Yep..I like the game but the monster panzers are also a game breaker for me. I've shelved the game subject to upcomimg patch improvements.

[RandomAttack]

Good point, freeboy-- I am strictly a SP kinda guy, and frequently fail to take MP into consideration.

[freeboy]

R A .. try to limit the panzer.. use the in game cheats as USSR or try this as Geerman limit the number of pk.. or try to use NO pk, only panzer divisions.. notw that would be a challenge

[LiquidSky]

A trick with the Russians is a 4 point rifle division will eat up an AP of a German unit. Just carpet the map with them in front of the German army until your efficiencies go up. tThe divisions will slow the movement of his army. It will make him wish he bought multiple panzer divisions instead.

Build your own Tank Corps and hit the Germans where they dont have the Panzer corps. Between the attrition of losing Infantry divisions, and the expensive PP repair cost of the Panzer Corps (as well as the expensive cost of repairing air), the Germans will reach a point in time, where they can no longer keep the army pushing forward.

Instead, you will be pushing him back.

[gwgardner]

ORIGINAL: oldspec4

Yep..I like the game but the monster panzers are also a game breaker for me. I've shelved the game subject to upcomimg patch improvements.

No need to shelve. Prior to the patch, just go into the data folder for the game, for the scenario you wish to play or are already playing, and using notepad change this entry in the consts.ini file:

[UnitExperience]
Land_PointsForCombat = 3

change that to whatever you want. Like 1. I did so, and in my Barbarossa game the largest panzer in October '41 is about 22 strength points.

[oldspec4]

"Shelving the game" may have come off as too harsh as I do think the game overall hits a sweet spot for me.

Thanks for the info and I do appreciate the ability to edit many of the game files. I'll take a look if I get some time.

[jjdenver]

Unfortunately I see a lot of what seem like ahistorical workarounds on the thread. Build lots of tac air and destroy panzers that way. Carpet the map with divisions to slow them down.

Maybe let's just tone down the panzers a little and have them take attrition when attacking tough Soviet positions like they really did in 1941 instead of dreaming up gamey (albeit clever) tactics to workaround the basic problem.

It seems like this happens a lot with games. It happened with GGWITE repeatedly, it is happening with the new version of CEAWGS. Instead of discussing the basic problem we confuse the issue by offering lots of crazy tactical workarounds....i.e. "operate your destroyers only near land based air in england so the uboats can't hunt down and destroy your destroyers with impunity - ahah - that solves it!"

Probably DT and company will address the panzer issue in a patch or some clever player will introduce a mod.

[battlevonwar]

IN retrospect:

The only limit on the large strength Panzer Armies is their APs. After 100 experience and the number of Generals the game assigns you. 4-5 of them really change the game in the east... the smaller ones are nice but can be stopped...

Not to say though a clever USSR cannot board herself up pretty good. You might need a hammer to get through to her too

[FieldOfGlory]

I'm still fairly new to TOF and haven't played any PBEM games yet. So I am wondering if the people who have played in PBEM games also think the PANZERS are overpowered and give too much advantage to AXIS?
The reason I ask is because if the game is relatively balanced in PBEM then that would mean that the problem is not the PANZERS but an AI that is incapable of mounting a good defence in USSR. If the game is balanced in PBEM then making changes could be a disaster as far as balance goes. In solo mode you cold always put yourself on a harder level and the USSR AI on easier level so they get the PP bonus.
I know it always sucks having to give the AI bonuses in order for the game to be competitive but that is just way it goes when it comes to large stratigic games. The are just too complex and require too much artistic creativity for a meer laptop to fully comprehend.

[battlevonwar]

I would say the same thing if it wasn't a PBEM game. My only real PBEM game, I played Fall Gelb, I purposely saw that if you use only Panzers in forward positions you get fast experience and you receive little punishment.(during the France/Minor TakeDown Phaze) By Wars end, First Snow Fall of 1941.. I had at least 3 or 4 Super Panzers. 10 other fairly powerful panzers... I really only used the Mech Inf to fill in gaps and it took a long time to get the regular infantry to fill in... I made it to Caucasus Oil Fields-3 hexes outside Moscow...Rostov to Leningrad elsewhere without much effort. I was cut of 3-4 times, it didn't matter, they smacked their way out of the pockets... It only let me kill more

P.S. I am confidant I could beat anyone, anyone at all on here with the Axis with normal game settings. No matter what

[freeboy]

yep.. to answer your ? its against humans that we are judging the uber panzer syndrom or UPS.. againsthte AI you can negatively cheat to make things harder, but against a Human the German panzer are like little death stars, and where they are most useful is the most non hystorical, taking fortified cities, just roll up and start zapping the bigest enemies in your way, get next to the city and hear the evil emperor say, "butthis is a fully operational death star" and zappo, no enemy in city..
This next , first , patcch is addressingthe issue.. we all hope and will be tested as soon as matrix wraps it into the in house delivery system... tic toc
Remember if playing solo F12 to go to the cheats area... I use it to activate human control but if you wanted to you could add pp to the enemy etc etc..
Fyi I am a good player and Battle crushed me, and no offense to him, I think he would be crushed by me or any other competent player as allies and USSR...
My oponenet in my first learner play be server game quit in frustration when in 41 I over ran oil with ease and had several unstoppable UPS and a decent airforce...
Good luck and good gaming
now WHEERE IS OUR PATCH? tic toc tic toc
[:-][:D]

[battlevonwar]

Take Cities My Ole Friend? I can take Fronts with these Weapons of Mass Destruction... German Panzer = WMD

[freeboy]

yes, but my point is Panzers should be a negative in taking forts or urban areas.. fronts where a given my emperor

[rodney727]

Panzer divisions who had less than 10 tanks were still called panzer divisions.

ORIGINAL: aspqrz

Panzergrenadier and Panzer, at this level, are really the same. One has more tanks and less mechanised infantry, the other the other way around.

Historically, of course, there were Panzer Corps that had no Panzer or Panzergrenadier units and were all Infantry, and Infantry Corps that had tanks ... things got confused during the Russian Campaign, especially in 1943-45.

Phil

[aspqrz02]

At some points Panzer Divisions that had no tanks at all were still called Panzer Divisions, IIRC.

[;)] [X(] [;)]

Phil

[Rasputitsa]

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar
Take Cities My Ole Friend? I can take Fronts with these Weapons of Mass Destruction... German Panzer = WMD

Which is where I think the problem really lies, getting 2/3 of full supply from a recently captured foreign city and railways opening up too quickly after capturing territory, particularly in Russia, this should not happen so easily.

When taking territory in the USSR, all captured rail hexes should become damaged and the repair should take longer. Enemy cities should not provide that level of supply until they have been under your control for a significant number of turns and connected to your MSS.

What happens now is exactly what the Germans hoped for, after Barbarossa, a successful battle on the frontiers and then a 'railway advance' to capture the interior. Which is what had happened in WW1, but not in WW2.

Without these effects I don't think the uber-PZs would be such a problem. [:)]

[freeboy]

ok, I just played barbarrossa straight, normal agaisnt hte German ai.. no cheating..
the uber panzers are still the planet killers of old.. they just roll through me... the best I can do is slow one down
 
BROKEN!!!!

[Akmatov]

as one who wants to be convinced to buy this game, this is very concerning

[freeboy]

well, if you are wanting to have an ai that is hard to beat this game is AWESOME.. and remember I have LOTS of hours enjoying this...
we just are working on the balancing now...
Trust me, great game.. hours of funs.. and by hours I mean LOTS of hours and Replay tooooo!
[:D]