Wild Sheep Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: witpqs

One thing to keep in mind is that by this time, if your opponent has been paying attention to it, all of his Australian infantry squads should be done upgrading to the current best standard - what's it called, AMF 42 or something? There will still be units filling out for a while to come, but all the militia should be gone by now.


AIF42. By end Feb the Allied can upgrade all his CMF and CMF Militia squads if he knows how to.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: Historiker

How is it stated so nicely in Shattered Sword?
The Japanese faild to follow the principle to use the maximum available power when it was needed.

Go one by one, but make sure you gain something worth the delay. That means: Make sure you let the better prepared enemy forces not get away!

Yes. This is what I'm struggling with. A lot of ideas and goals, but only an increasingly short window and limited troops,and so my thinking has to get focused. Destroying the troops in the Perth 'pocket' might be a valid goal at this point in the war, over-riding the desire to simultaneously slow the advance of troops and 4Es on the E coast. Also if we take away many troops, the ability to reinforce and replenish troops elsewhere will suffer. If I can cut the rail line early I could even conceivably trap air units here.

I was already thinking in this direction, but after reading your comment my thinking is leaning toward bringing all of the PI troops to Java and then reloading for destinations around Perth.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: witpqs

One thing to keep in mind is that by this time, if your opponent has been paying attention to it, all of his Australian infantry squads should be done upgrading to the current best standard - what's it called, AMF 42 or something? There will still be units filling out for a while to come, but all the militia should be gone by now.


AIF42. By end Feb the Allied can upgrade all his CMF and CMF Militia squads if he knows how to.

Good to know. Again, this points me toward using as much force as possible in the currently planned operation around Perth.

Do any of you know offhand when the withdrawals for British CVs and the updates for the US CVs take place?
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]Yamato[/font]
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Today we have a new reason to haul lots of fuel around. Yamato is here! The Petes are changing out to Jakes and 5 recently upgraded DDs are heading over to escort the biggest ship on the map to the DEI to get close to the action.
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Image
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]23 May 1942[/font]
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

subs: Ouch! Two subs met the Mini-KB as it left Carnarvon in spite of Jakes night searching, two ASW TFs leading and 30 ASW in the ACTF itself and another 16 ASW in the SCTF.

First O-23 lets loose 4 torps and hits CA Suzuya with one of them. Then Tarpon shows up and shoots 4 at Junyo! Three hit and luckily two are duds. This is the seventh sub attack on CVs during the war by Allied forces, resulting in 3 hits.

On a brighter note Junyo moved forward and proceeding with the day's mission. It turns out it only has 23 (16) float damage and 5 system damage. It's speed is sufficient to stay with the TF at 6 hexes a day. We got lucky this time.

Suzuya is in similar territory, with float damage at 25 (19).

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Carnarvon at 47,135

Japanese Ships
CA Suzuya, Torpedo hits 1
DD Isonami
DD Tachikaze
DD Hokaze
DD Yukaze
DD Sagiri

Allied Ships
SS O23

SS O23 launches 4 torpedoes at CA Suzuya

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Carnarvon at 47,136

Japanese Ships
CV Junyo, Torpedo hits 1
CA Suzuya
DD Asagiri
DD Tachikaze
DD Hokaze
DD Yukaze
DD Sagiri

Allied Ships
SS Tarpon

SS Tarpon launches 4 torpedoes at CV Junyo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/font]
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Image
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West Australia: The ACTF travelled on out of the sub zone and into range of Perth. The strike on Perth put a few more ships in jeopardy and gave a little bit of payback for the events of the morning.

The escort did well, shooting down 5 Kittyhawks for no losses to the strike planes. One zero was lost to ops.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Perth at 49,147

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 85 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 56
B5N1 Kate x 17
B5N2 Kate x 27

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IA x 16


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk IA: 4 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Norman, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Tenedos, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAP Boschfontein, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires


Allied ground losses:
52 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
9 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
9 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
17 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
1 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 10000 feet
1 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 10000 feet

CAP engaged:
No.77 Sqn RAAF with Kittyhawk IA (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Norman
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Tenedos
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAP Boschfontein

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/font]

So Pac: 17 Bettys hit Cairns today where the Allies have 12-15 bombers with no fighter cover. The report states that 6 Wirraways were damaged and one destroyed, while 2 Hudsons were damaged. If no fighters come here we'll hit it periodically.

China: Our forces are moving on Kunming. An infantry Corps is beginning to move up the road from Kweiyang. 45 Sallys hit it today disabling 33 squads and destroying 2. Also, the large Topsy group is flying in the cavalry unit for the 55th division so it can get put back together.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by Historiker »

The Brit CVs should start leaving in July or so.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: Historiker

The Brit CVs should start leaving in July or so.

Good news. That means he won't want to commit them mid-June to an operation in the mid-Indian Ocean.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by Historiker »

I would, if that takes out Jap CVs.
Who cares about some PP, when enemy Capital Ships can be sunk?
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I would, if that takes out Jap CVs.
Who cares about some PP, when enemy Capital Ships can be sunk?

One of the biggest parts of the war I've been working on is how to understand my opponent, and his potential for action. So far he has been mostly cautious with occasional feisty moments of surprise.

Through my brash use of the fleet early on I'd like to give him pause whenever he considers an operation and to keep his best assets out of harm's way until he is stronger. The current Mini-KB attack on Perth, the second strike in several weeks, is slightly beyond the line of what should be safe right now. This would make me think he wouldn't be comfortable leaving the British CVs at Columbo, which would be the best place to be able to react to a move into the Indian Ocean, but is also vulnerable to a move from around Sumatra. I do know that at least 1-2 of the US CVs are in the Pacific, but I haven't seen a British CV anywhere yet during the game.

Based on comments by Jocke in our emails I know he is scrambling to get enough units into place and has bemoaned the lack of PPs several times. I assume that if the withdrawal was soon he would be preparing by keeping the CV in a place where it could easily get back to a port to save the points.

Still, if I do go for the Atolls in the IO I will set a sub wall around the area and have search on AVs a good distance from the invasion fleet and the Mini-KB. It's still a month away, so things may be very different by then.

Another thing to consider is that with Junyo back into shape by then (I think) the Mini-KB should be strong enough to do well against the British. It has at full capacity: 88 A6M2, 54 B5N2, and 15 D3A1. The main worry would be CVs coming unexpectedly through the wormhole.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]24 May 1942[/font]
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subs: I-3 near the channel islands finds a massive convoy of TKs. She gets 4 off and hits TK H. M. Storey with one, which is left on fire. This looks like it's outgoing. We'll try to get other subs in the way as it moves along.

O-20 gets us right back with a hit on TK Syoyo Maru near Brunei. This medium sized tanker is left at 65 (53) float with 12 system damage, so we'll try to get her back to Bruneii. Don't like to lose any of these at all.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Channel Islands at 220,83

Japanese Ships
SS I-3

Allied Ships
TK H. M. Storey, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
TK War Sirdar
TK Herborg
TK Belita
TK Camden
TK Pat Doheny
TK Mobilgas
TK Alfred Clegg
DD Allen

SS I-3 launches 4 torpedoes at TK H. M. Storey
------------------------------------------------------------------
[/font]

West Australia: Port Hedland is taken today. Only a base force is here and this SNLF will push to Corunna Downs and force it into the desert. Supply continues to flow into Daly Waters and no planes have been lost to A to A, although several Thalias drop to ops losses as usual in spite of their solid pilots.

The damaged Mini-KB audaciously (foolishly?) continues to attack at Perth. No opposition rises up today and the strike critically damages a number of valuable ships with minimal losses. We'll keep zig-zagging, search the IO like crazy and attack again. There are still 38 ships shown here. Dinahs are now flying from Carnarvon raising the DL for these attacks.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Perth , at 49,147

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 116 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 49 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 56
B5N1 Kate x 16
B5N2 Kate x 32
D3A1 Val x 14


Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
xAP Boschfontein, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMC Westralia, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Tenedos, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CM Prins van Oranje, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Mijer, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAP Camphuys, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Vendetta, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 8 (6 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Port hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
9 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
9 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
16 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
5 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/font]

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Image
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
HMAS Vendetta. Hopefully we've seen the last of this ship. She's been a menace to the subs in the area for months.

So Pac: A big sigint blip continues to move toward the Tonga area. Subs are aiming that way.

China: The Chinese separate brigade being knocked around in the far western desert by tanks has surrendered. These three tank units will push on to Hami.

DEI: The SNLF at Padang DAs and today takes out the remnants of the Dutch forces, which all surrender. This unit will be quickly picked up and brought to Tilityap to prep for destinations in OZ.

PI: The tanks are leaving now and will aim for Carnarvon, though they are listed as going to Singapore with a waypoint 2 hexes from Exmouth. Just in case this would change anything if it appears in sigint. They will not prep for any point in OZ until closer to the landing.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by Historiker »

ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: Historiker

I would, if that takes out Jap CVs.
Who cares about some PP, when enemy Capital Ships can be sunk?

One of the biggest parts of the war I've been working on is how to understand my opponent, and his potential for action. So far he has been mostly cautious with occasional feisty moments of surprise.

Through my brash use of the fleet early on I'd like to give him pause whenever he considers an operation and to keep his best assets out of harm's way until he is stronger. The current Mini-KB attack on Perth, the second strike in several weeks, is slightly beyond the line of what should be safe right now. This would make me think he wouldn't be comfortable leaving the British CVs at Columbo, which would be the best place to be able to react to a move into the Indian Ocean, but is also vulnerable to a move from around Sumatra. I do know that at least 1-2 of the US CVs are in the Pacific, but I haven't seen a British CV anywhere yet during the game.

Based on comments by Jocke in our emails I know he is scrambling to get enough units into place and has bemoaned the lack of PPs several times. I assume that if the withdrawal was soon he would be preparing by keeping the CV in a place where it could easily get back to a port to save the points.

Still, if I do go for the Atolls in the IO I will set a sub wall around the area and have search on AVs a good distance from the invasion fleet and the Mini-KB. It's still a month away, so things may be very different by then.

Another thing to consider is that with Junyo back into shape by then (I think) the Mini-KB should be strong enough to do well against the British. It has at full capacity: 88 A6M2, 54 B5N2, and 15 D3A1. The main worry would be CVs coming unexpectedly through the wormhole.
One of the biggest mistakes in military history always was to believe you can anticipate your opponent's moves accurate.
I've done that again and again in my games, and while it often worked out, it also led to horrible defeats. But I think you should never anticipate your opponent to behave like you want him to.

I had games where I did Sir Robin, while I managed to get a US CV into the Java sea within 20 days after the war began - making its airgroup say hello to Jap CVLs and CVEs...



What do you hope to gain with Diego and Addu?
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

What do you hope to gain with Diego and Addu?

By aiming at the deep IO with invasions at Diego and Addu I would hope to squeeze supply routes and keep an eye on anything moving into the Sri Lanka area. Also, I would hope to forestall any moves on Burma by forcing my opponent to use assets to keep these outposts in check and eventually take them back. The ability to use air search would help any subs working the area, and with the G3M3 and later LR recon, this might be a good post for recon of parts of India as well.

I would be fully prepared to leave the Brigade and a Rgt out here as garrison and lose them when the time comes, to be bought back later in the HI and built up to move toward the inner perimeter later in 43.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: obvert

HMAS Vendetta. Hopefully we've seen the last of this ship. She's been a menace to the subs in the area for months.

One 250 kg could sink her, but I wouldn't count on it. Allied damage control is just too good.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert

HMAS Vendetta. Hopefully we've seen the last of this ship. She's been a menace to the subs in the area for months.

One 250 kg could sink her, but I wouldn't count on it. Allied damage control is just too good.

I'm hoping the DDs and subs have gotten the 800 kg hits! [:)] I've experienced the effects of the damage control already a few times, especially after the P of W apparently got out of the DEI after 3 torpedo shots and a fire/heavy damage message.

In these past few attacks I think each CL in port here has taken three 800 kg bombs and listed internal explosions. Still, they are afloat. A bunch of these ships must have been here healing, because he hasn't tried to move them out to either attack or get away to ports in the SE of OZ.
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]SW Australia[/font]
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Both ships hit by torpedoes yesterday healed a few point of float damage, and look to be stable. The info from recon at Perth show that this is too good to abort now. The opportunity to hit multiple subs in port plus sink a couple of CLs and potentially more DDs must be taken at this point, when the advantage is in the hands of the Japanese. Plus it's fun and is helping me test settings and performance of CV aircraft.
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Image
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The Mini-KB will head to the South to continue getting distance between us and the area the subs were flooding. ASW TFs are working the area and subs are near to watch for escaping ships and attempt to save downed pilots.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]China[/font]
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As the map shows, the area of interest in China has shrunk. In the north troops are flooding to the area around Kienko. If this spot remains stable I will attempt to send units to flank rather than just bludgeoning forth with the attack. Two units are experimenting with this farther south near Anking. A division and a brigade are walking throughout the woods toward the yellow road on the other side. Should they get to the gray road they could be able to make it all of the way to Kienko through the backdoor as the IJAAF can slow and disable Chinese troops in the clear.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Image
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Near Chihkiang the Chinese have a big roadblock on the other side of the river of 200,000 troops. In Chihkiang there are another 160,000. The IJA can assemble between 5,500 and 6,000 AV plus arty and will aim for Chihkiang. This could be a devastating blow to either side dependent on the adjustment, the supply situation and the forts. This spot has been bombed consistently and I would be shocked if the forts were above 2. I would think they would be at 1 considering no Chinese units were even here for most of the game. The fields are at 85-100 damage consistently, and 5-7 supply hits are listed each day.

At Kunming 3 tank units have moved into the city and will wait for the 33rd and 55th divisions to arrive before attacking. Four Chinese units of 15,000 are listed here.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]25 May 1942[/font]
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

West Australia: The Mini hits at Perth again. The two CLs have to be in pretty bad shape now. The Pike looks done, and a couple of CMs are hit hard. Only a few ops losses today. Unfortunately Junyo's planes don't fly. Not sure what's going on there.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Perth , at 49,147

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 109 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 46 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 45
B5N2 Kate x 30



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
CM Willem v d Zaan, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AM Lark, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CM Gouden Leeuw, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
SS Pike, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
CL Danae, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Durban, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AD Black Hawk, Bomb hits 1, on fire


Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Port hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/font]
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Image
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ten Oscars tangle with six Kittyhawks over Katherine and come out on top, shooting down 5 for 2 losses including ops.

Derby is invaded. No Australians units are here.

China: The Chinese look to be moving more into the hex near Kienko they are holding now. Also, tanks move close to Hami in the NW desert.

DEI: Troops are moving from everywhere toward OZ. Air HQs will be temporarily sent to Broome for LR bombing and to Carnarvon, which will make level two soon.

PI: The TBs will be back for the remainder of the PTs in a day or two.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]26 May 1942[/font]
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

subs: DDs near Tulagi get some revenge with 13 hits on the Nautilus. One major penetrating hit with an internal explosion.

West Australia: For some reason the Junyo planes don't fly. All leaders are solid and there is nothing different in their settings. I'll have to keep an eye on this. A good attack anyway, but I was hoping for more.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Perth , at 49,147

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 105 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 44 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42
B5N2 Kate x 30


No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AMC Westralia, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CL Danae, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CM Rigel, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO TAN 1, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
CL Durban, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Jupiter, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage


Port hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/font]

Broome is invaded. This will become a base for Netties temporarilyuntil Carnarvon is buit to a 3 and then a size four airbase.

So Pac: The KB is easing toward a refuel at Tarawa. Zuikaku and Shokaku will then head north to Yokohama for their radar refits. The rest will go to Rabaul to heal minor damage.

The big blip is still moving across the South Pacific, seeming to come toward NZ.

PI: A Kate miraculously hits a PT from 1,000 ft, but the message 'ship dead in the water' probably had something to do with it.

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Image
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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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ny59giants
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by ny59giants »

This is my reply to your opponent's inquire about using stacking limits with existing games. Just so you known what I said.

Jocke,

The first few turns with the new Pwhex files (there are three found in link below) was adjustment for both sides. Since I'm playing Japan, I had my "Death Star" one hex to the west of Changsha in China at Siangtan (95k limit with 149k actual). The first turn found my Allied opponent pulling out of hex totally and the AI gave me possession. When I looked at the base afterwards, ALL my supply with the troops was destroyed. OUCH!! However, the next turn showed the units refilling with supply, but that was a surprise.

My Allied opponent had his "Death Star" one hex SE from Chittagong. He had 12 divisions and 9 armored units in hex. He attacked the turn before and the turn after the Pwhex. He lost a lot of vehicles the turn after. I was already in the process of pulling back a hex as 3 of 5 divisions need to be rebuilt.

On my last turn, I was trying to send a partially rebuilt division from Cox Bazar into the hex directly east and was unable to give orders. The hex due east of Cox is still overstacked, so the move was not allowed. It looks like you cannot deliberately add more troops to a hex that is overstacked. More learning, I think.

Overall, I don't think I'll go back to playing a game without these stacking limits. Yes, there will be some period of adjustment, but I will need to become better with tactics and use mobility to achieve my goals. I will need to experiment with how much I can overstack a hex and deal with the extra disruption in combat.

Michael

https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswi ... limit-data



This is from JWE:
Understand your concerns. Couple things to realize about SLs.

1 The SLs relate to game troop density, not IRL troop density. IRL troop densities are very different; about 2 to 3 times game troop densities. So IRL troop density concerns don’t have much relevance to the algorithm.

2 The SLs aren’t hard limits. If either side goes over the limit what happens is they experience greater fatigue and disruption (random 1 to 5 for each unit) and, most importantly, eat supply at a higher rate; for each 10% over the stack limit, supply usage increases by an additional 20%. Obviously, the larger the SL for a hex, the larger the unit that can cause an overstack and begin the supply penalty.

There’s lots of headroom, in the vast majority of China hexes, for major battles with very large formations, on both sides. There’s generally room for 3 J-Divs and supporting combat troops (Arty, Tanks, and Engs), facing 4 to 5 Chinese Corps (about 60-80k per side, per hex). The only thing limited is the Megastack.

The SLs try to take account of the 3:1 ratio. In a fully occupied defended hex, it’s gonna be a bitch for an attacker to get a decent ratio for more than a few turns because of the limits. But then that’s how it was, yeah? So I don’t think Japan is gonna run rampant. If China chooses well and defends correctly, results in that theater might show up a bit closer to nominal: and an SL limited ‘difficult’ terrain hex will swing even more to the defender’s advantage.

No advantage to Arty. Believe me Joel, that’s the first thing we tested. Frankly, arty works like it’s supposed to if it’s used as it was.

Armor is helpful, but we’ve been using Babes where the whole armor thing has been redone. Haven’t seen anything where armor provides any significant advantage. In highly disadvantageous terrain, it is proportionally disadvantaged.

But, of course, all this is predicated on the players being righteous. And those are the very players the SLs were done for.
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obvert
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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

This is my reply to your opponent's inquire about using stacking limits with existing games. Just so you known what I said.

Jocke,

The first few turns with the new Pwhex files (there are three found in link below) was adjustment for both sides. Since I'm playing Japan, I had my "Death Star" one hex to the west of Changsha in China at Siangtan (95k limit with 149k actual). The first turn found my Allied opponent pulling out of hex totally and the AI gave me possession. When I looked at the base afterwards, ALL my supply with the troops was destroyed. OUCH!! However, the next turn showed the units refilling with supply, but that was a surprise.

My Allied opponent had his "Death Star" one hex SE from Chittagong. He had 12 divisions and 9 armored units in hex. He attacked the turn before and the turn after the Pwhex. He lost a lot of vehicles the turn after. I was already in the process of pulling back a hex as 3 of 5 divisions need to be rebuilt.

On my last turn, I was trying to send a partially rebuilt division from Cox Bazar into the hex directly east and was unable to give orders. The hex due east of Cox is still overstacked, so the move was not allowed. It looks like you cannot deliberately add more troops to a hex that is overstacked. More learning, I think.

Overall, I don't think I'll go back to playing a game without these stacking limits. Yes, there will be some period of adjustment, but I will need to become better with tactics and use mobility to achieve my goals. I will need to experiment with how much I can overstack a hex and deal with the extra disruption in combat.

Michael

https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswi ... limit-data



This is from JWE:
Understand your concerns. Couple things to realize about SLs.

1 The SLs relate to game troop density, not IRL troop density. IRL troop densities are very different; about 2 to 3 times game troop densities. So IRL troop density concerns don’t have much relevance to the algorithm.

2 The SLs aren’t hard limits. If either side goes over the limit what happens is they experience greater fatigue and disruption (random 1 to 5 for each unit) and, most importantly, eat supply at a higher rate; for each 10% over the stack limit, supply usage increases by an additional 20%. Obviously, the larger the SL for a hex, the larger the unit that can cause an overstack and begin the supply penalty.

There’s lots of headroom, in the vast majority of China hexes, for major battles with very large formations, on both sides. There’s generally room for 3 J-Divs and supporting combat troops (Arty, Tanks, and Engs), facing 4 to 5 Chinese Corps (about 60-80k per side, per hex). The only thing limited is the Megastack.

The SLs try to take account of the 3:1 ratio. In a fully occupied defended hex, it’s gonna be a bitch for an attacker to get a decent ratio for more than a few turns because of the limits. But then that’s how it was, yeah? So I don’t think Japan is gonna run rampant. If China chooses well and defends correctly, results in that theater might show up a bit closer to nominal: and an SL limited ‘difficult’ terrain hex will swing even more to the defender’s advantage.

No advantage to Arty. Believe me Joel, that’s the first thing we tested. Frankly, arty works like it’s supposed to if it’s used as it was.

Armor is helpful, but we’ve been using Babes where the whole armor thing has been redone. Haven’t seen anything where armor provides any significant advantage. In highly disadvantageous terrain, it is proportionally disadvantaged.

But, of course, all this is predicated on the players being righteous. And those are the very players the SLs were done for.

Thanks so much.

Yes, we're looking at this because both of us realize that it's been no fun to just bludgeon one spot with as much as you can throw at it. I'm still doing it, because it's the only way to move forward in standard vanilla Scen 1. And he is still defending this way. But, if we could implement this at the right time, when it's not in the middle of a battle or when we have a slight break where we're both jockeying for position, it could work well.

It's a bit too bad you can't move troops through a hex that is overstacked as this could limit rotating troops in and out to wear down determined defenders unless there were multiple routes available. But I guess this mirrors real conditions better where terrain and pinch points were actually very important.

(Any implementation of this will be too late to help the Allies much in China after my opponent revealed he actually has more men now in China than the total number of supply there! While I have been wary of attacking big stacks, this is a useful piece of information to let me try one out once all troops are in place).

Do the levels of development of a base give it a greater stacking limit or are they fixed amounts?

Another question. Would this make arty less useful in low stacking limit hexes where you'd want to have as much AV per unit as possible?

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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