Where have you been hiding this game?

[bryanhbell]

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

If you don't have any facts or figures, how can you discuss an opinion; much less a business one?

Also, I think Erik knows his job well enough to judge for himself whether or not Steam distribution is worthwhile. Respecting his decision is a "strong view" I do hold to.

I think you're expecting more rigorous analysis than is appropriate for a forum such as this.

Granted, opinions supported by facts and figures are more likely to be accepted, and deservedly so. But facts and figures don't always factor in to discussions of opinion. It doesn't seem right to attempt to shut down conversation on a topic just because people aren't citing statistics to support their opinions. People should feel free to express their opinions here. Take, for example, your opinion that we should respect Erik's business decisions. You didn't (and probably couldn't) cite any figures to support this assertion. Instead, you probably have what you consider to be good reasons for your view. In a discussion of this opinion on this forum, citing your reasons would be enough.

You might be conflating knowledge with opinion. Knowledge is the result of positive analysis (what is demonstrably true) while opinion is the result of normative analysis (what ought to be true). I don't think the participants here are claiming certain knowledge about Matrix Games' business decisions. They're only expressing their opinion about what they'd like Matrix Games to do.

[Satosky]

ORIGINAL: Mad Igor

ORIGINAL: Darkspire
Youtube Codeforce needs to update its tags on the videos

gangnam style [:D]

Just have them add some cute baby animals such as kittens to one of the videos and it will probably have 1 million views by the end of day 1. [;)]

[TheJian]

Well said.. what makes a game better IMO, is being able to come to a forum and give your opinion, and the old gamers not act like you cant say what you feel.. this forum is like most, it turns most people away..IMO

ORIGINAL: bryanhbell

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

If you don't have any facts or figures, how can you discuss an opinion; much less a business one?

Also, I think Erik knows his job well enough to judge for himself whether or not Steam distribution is worthwhile. Respecting his decision is a "strong view" I do hold to.

I think you're expecting more rigorous analysis than is appropriate for a forum such as this.

Granted, opinions supported by facts and figures are more likely to be accepted, and deservedly so. But facts and figures don't always factor in to discussions of opinion. It doesn't seem right to attempt to shut down conversation on a topic just because people aren't citing statistics to support their opinions. People should feel free to express their opinions here. Take, for example, your opinion that we should respect Erik's business decisions. You didn't (and probably couldn't) cite any figures to support this assertion. Instead, you probably have what you consider to be good reasons for your view. In a discussion of this opinion on this forum, citing your reasons would be enough.

You might be conflating knowledge with opinion. Knowledge is the result of positive analysis (what is demonstrably true) while opinion is the result of normative analysis (what ought to be true). I don't think the participants here are claiming certain knowledge about Matrix Games' business decisions. They're only expressing their opinion about what they'd like Matrix Games to do.

[bryanhbell]

ORIGINAL: TheJian
Well said.. what makes a game better IMO, is being able to come to a forum and give your opinion, and the old gamers not act like you cant say what you feel.. this forum is like most, it turns most people away..IMO

Thank you, though I must say that when I first came here, I personally found the "old timers" to be quite welcoming. I think this is a pretty nice community here.

[TheJian]

I was not really talking about this game in particular .. just most forums..I have found most of the new people here have a more open mind, but you will always have the fan boys and the people who mod the game feeling what they say and feel is important and has more weight.. if you think you can come online and agree with most people you are delusional..That is what is so amazing about the internet, you can meet people with different viewpoints.. Most of us attack people simply because they have a different point of view.... people like this need to stay off computer till they grow up IMO...

ORIGINAL: bryanhbell

ORIGINAL: TheJian
Well said.. what makes a game better IMO, is being able to come to a forum and give your opinion, and the old gamers not act like you cant say what you feel.. this forum is like most, it turns most people away..IMO

Thank you, though I must say that when I first came here, I personally found the "old timers" to be quite welcoming. I think this is a pretty nice community here.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: TheJian

Most of us attack people simply because they have a different point of view.... people like this need to stay off computer till they grow up IMO...

That would reduce the internet population by a minimum of 99%. [:D]

But it is also important not to confuse a lively debate with an attack. You are never going to get everyone to agree with you...and quite frankly I'd be frightened if that ever did happen. We need the diversity, not to become a monolithic society. Without diversity we stagnate.

[TheJian]

Absolutely Shark7.. I'm just from the opinion that some individuals believe debate is actually making personal assumptions about an individual or making personal attacks.. you can a attack someone's conclusion about a particular subject without attacking them personally.

I've always understood the most effective way of doing this was asking questions..anything else is just intellectual masturbation...aka(lively debate)

Anyway when you have a game with a high price point.. I believe the community has a direct impact on its growth.. 1 of the most effective ways to increase a community IMO, is how people interact with each other on the forums.. as with most games people watch the forums from the sidelines... so when you have the people who are very opinionated and very obnoxious .. it stops people from the sideline from joining..people are attracted by numbers... the more actively participating the better, and let's face it the price point of the game makes it very difficult to grow an audience.. little activity on a forums also makes people assume the game is not worth getting.... plus unfortunately when you have such a small fan base the update will be geared towards them.. this also will decrease the appeal to the majority.


As with all games I've ever played.. you always have the people who have modded the game think that their input and use on a game supercede everyone else.. this is a very unique point about this game because it is not that difficult to mod.. all the things you can mod are very superficial.. it puts everybody on a very equal playing field.. on 1 hand I'm quite surprised that the game has not grown much.. but on the other I am NOT.. I personally watch these forums a year before I even join them... The game is good if you compare to what is out.. just like people often bring up other games here i have never seen this game talked about on other game site i go 2. you want the game to grow, go talk about it..

[wozza]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

The only thing I can add to this discussion is this: If the game had been offered on Steam and not here at Matrix, I wouldn't be playing it.

My point being...there is always some group of potential customers you will miss despite which sales model you use. You've got people that have never heard of Matrix, and you have people like me that refuse to use Steam, etc etc etc. Basically its almost impossible to reach every potential customer...even with TV, Radio and internet advertising. Some will always fall through the cracks and be missed.

Multiple avenues can be better, but only if it helps the company, not costs it more than its worth.

I still yet to understand how some customers would miss out on this business model DRM free and no Steam. I know there are people who want Steam but you can still play it with out it. Is it because the people who want Steam want to store it in the library and don't want any discs.

[bryanhbell]

ORIGINAL: wozza
I still yet to understand how some customers would miss out on this business model DRM free and no Steam. I know there are people who want Steam but you can still play it with out it. Is it because the people who want Steam want to store it in the library and don't want any discs.

I believe the thinking is that without making Distant Worlds available through multiple distribution channels such as Steam or GOG that many people who might buy the game don't even know it exists. Whatever your feelings about Steam, it does provide games with pretty significant exposure (nearly 5.5 million potential customers currently). Steam (and most of the other online retailers) offer multiple avenues for gamers to communicate about the games on their service (user recommendations, games other users are playing, user screenshots and videos, discussion boards, etc.). If, like many publishers on Steam, Matrix Games offered Distant Worlds direct and DRM-free on their own site in addition to Steam, then gamers could choose whichever purchase model they preferred, but at least many more gamers would find out about the game.

[wozza]

It is available at Paradox Gamersgate though.

[bryanhbell]

ORIGINAL: wozza
It is available at Paradox Gamersgate though.

Whoa! I didn't know that. That's cool. Seems appropriate since Paradox is known for strategy games. Too bad only the base game is available there. GamersGate probably doesn't provide the degree of exposure that Steam could though.

[Shark7]

Yeah, I'd never even heard of gamersgate until it was mentioned here.

[Velihopea]

ORIGINAL: wozza
It is available at Paradox Gamersgate though.

Paradox doesn't own Gamersgate anymore, although GG started as digital distributor of Paradox games. Paradox has also stated that after they started selling their games in Steam (as of HOI3) 90% of their sales come from there.

Thats a huge increase in sales.

[Erik Rutins]

Hi guys,

We welcome debate here - don't let the occasional negative poster get you down.

We are very open-minded and share the mission expressed here to make Distant Worlds as well-known and popular as possible. We have not been sitting on our hands in this regard. A lot has been accomplished and attempted as far as marketing and raising awareness, including retail and other distribution deals. We will keep working to make Distant Worlds as successful as possible, but unfortunately as with many things, there's no "get rich quick" method or easy fix or single solution. It just takes a lot of continuing hard work to open as many doors as possible.

Regards,

- Erik

[ASHBERY76]

The Unity of Command developer was very happy when his game appeared on Steam.It is nuts not to have DistantWorlds on steam.Elliot should not be a lone wolf developer with a game like this after 2 years.

[Satosky]

Could always do an ama(ask me anything) or go to r/gaming on Reddit and advertise/introduce the game there as they are usually very open towards new and largely unknown games such as this one.

Plenty of youtube game reviewers(notably the AngryJoeShow since he is a big fan of 4X with 200k subscribers) you could ask as well.

Steam is great for those that love having their game in one place but its not for everyone.(drm and all that fun stuff) ^^ I don't mind either way.

[wozza]

ORIGINAL: Velihopea

ORIGINAL: wozza
It is available at Paradox Gamersgate though.

Paradox doesn't own Gamersgate anymore, although GG started as digital distributor of Paradox games. Paradox has also stated that after they started selling their games in Steam (as of HOI3) 90% of their sales come from there.

Thats a huge increase in sales.

I still have the feeling that Paradox still own some shares in it because GG is very closely linked to Paradox.

[bryanhbell]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

We welcome debate here - don't let the occasional negative poster get you down.

We are very open-minded and share the mission expressed here to make Distant Worlds as well-known and popular as possible. We have not been sitting on our hands in this regard. A lot has been accomplished and attempted as far as marketing and raising awareness, including retail and other distribution deals. We will keep working to make Distant Worlds as successful as possible, but unfortunately as with many things, there's no "get rich quick" method or easy fix or single solution. It just takes a lot of continuing hard work to open as many doors as possible.

Regards,

- Erik

Yeah, it's pretty easy for us customers to be armchair quarterbacking Matrix Games' business decisions, but it's another thing entirely to be on the field executing the actual plays. I think for the most part we get that and know we're only expressing our desires as players of Distant Worlds. Anyway, we all essentially want to see the same thing: widespread success for Distant Worlds! [:)]

[ehsumrell1]

Well said Bryanhbell!

[Velihopea]

ORIGINAL: wozza
I still have the feeling that Paradox still own some shares in it because GG is very closely linked to Paradox.

True, at least Johan owns part of GG. Paradox as a company doesn't, but they still have close relations though. I believe their offices are on the same building still.

But to the original point: GG is clearly a small vendor compared to steam. And even quite niche strategy developer like Paradox have had great success after steam distribution. (They used to have one team making games, I believe now they have 4 teams)

"Anyway, we all essentially want to see the same thing: widespread success for Distant Worlds!"
Agree, DW is quite unique in this time when scifi 4x is populated with many MoO'alikes (don't get me wrong, I like ES). And I do appreciate the efforts that Matrix is putting for the game. Thanks Erik for commenting on the issue.