A Lemon rises in the East: SqzMyLemon (J) vs. JocMeister (A)

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: obvert

The added benefit is that I've sunk in the range of 110-120 Allied subs.[;)]

Which is amazing. Sorry to say, but it also suggests that your opponent needs review his sub procedures because even Andy AI will not continuously put his subs into my 'kill' zones like that. [;)]

Kudos though that you have gotten that many ... really amazing!

[&o][&o][&o]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

And LI has a 1000 day payback ... which means you don't break even for almost 3 years. You should never expand LI. Use that 1000 supply to go conquer another 20 LI base. [;)]

Unless you plan to hold it for three years, in which case expand it. I'm now reaping the benefits of the expansions in China, Manchuria and the HI, which are the only places I would do this. They may be firebombed in th next few months, but I'm still positive on supply. There also were not any more 20 LI bases to conquer when I did this. [;)]

I'm sorry Eric ...

but you are early '45. That means you expanded the LI in Jan/Feb 42? and you will 'benefit' for 2 - 3 months? that's 60 - 90 supply per 1000 spent, a terrible ROI ... and you will earn the allies more VP's when they destroy the factories? And you lost the use of 1000's of supply when you could have been expanding your empire in early-mid '42 when most IJ players are running short of everything including supply? And any expansoin on the HI means spedning more fuel to move more resources? I can't see the logic at all here, sorry. we agree on most things, but not this one.

I move resources primarily from returning convoys that would use the fuel anyway, right? My other runs are from Fusan and Hakodate. Not so far.

My game is in 11/44 and the first LI I added in the HI should just now be starting to produce the positive after cost. The Chinese supply will come in the next months as will that in Manchuria. Some of the LI at Hong Kong was destroyed, so that is a negative 50-60 supply cost. [:)]

In some areas I may benefit for as long as the game is on, and that of course is a gamble, but why is it a poor return on investment? Your logic doesn't make sense. Why would I want to increase my LOC (and fuel and supply expenditure) by increasing my empire further instead of planning for the future? You forget that all of these things have a cost. I didn't want a bigger Empire. The cost in expanding and defending it not to mention added fuel would dwarf the cost of expanding LI in the HI which you see as having a poor ROI. In fact that LI (in China and Manchuria as well with local resources available, no shipping) might run into late 45 or even 46 should I last that long. That would be extra supply, even if it doesn't look like a lot in total it is more, and when it counts. I want to use the late war fighters I'm getting now, not be stuck without the supply to do it.

I wasn't in fact running short on supply because I built things up slowly in 42, and the expansion stopped at historical most places except with the short term use of New Caledonia as an expendable buffer zone with little build up or supply/fuel cost. Oh, and NW OZ, but again simply as a buffer.

China cost a bit more than expected because Jocke balked at losing the whole thing, deciding he'd stand on principle that it wasn't possible in the war so why should it be here, and we agreed on this eventually and left his inner four bases intact and unconquered. I had planned for taking those with the added HI/LI and resources that would all be run locally with no shipping involved, plus the massive VP count for Chunking and Chengtu, but didn't get to have them in the end due to our agreement.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert

The added benefit is that I've sunk in the range of 110-120 Allied subs.[;)]

Which is amazing. Sorry to say, but it also suggests that your opponent needs review his sub procedures because even Andy AI will not continuously put his subs into my 'kill' zones like that. [;)]

Kudos though that you have gotten that many ... really amazing!

[&o][&o][&o]

I am simply a disciple of rader on this one, as I studied and tried to get every detail of what he was doing in this respect after GJ basically said e couldn't even move subs past the line of rader's territory without losing them.

The key, which I've mentioned time and again without anyone really taking it seriously, is to train the ASW pilots in low naval as well as ASW. If you can add search in as they work, and then you have a triple threat unit that can run 40 ASW, 30 search 30 rest, giving your ASW planes longer legs on the search runs, more chance to hit subs if found on those runs, and more chance to hit with ASW as well.

I've also found I get more hits using these units without setting defined search/ASW arcs. Just let em fly.

[PaxMondo]

As I say, we disagree on this topic.

I have to ask though, how does supply impact your use of fighters in the late game? Never had that problem connected before ...

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

As I say, we disagree on this topic.

I have to ask though, how does supply impact your use of fighters in the late game? Never had that problem connected before ...

I have to have it to get factories repaired to make their engines, to finish their research and eventually to fly the planes. Every plane in the air uses supply.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: obvert
The key, which I've mentioned time and again without anyone really taking it seriously, is to train the ASW pilots in low naval as well as ASW.

I do this. All my bomber units with the exception of those operating in China are trained in ASW, LowNav and Naval Search. This is all in preparation for Kami use and to counter the eventual submarine blockade.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

As I say, we disagree on this topic.

Sigh, it looks like I have to play one more game as Japan after all so we can see what happens and determine whether this is a viable option for Japan or not. [:D]

[SqzMyLemon]

I so need a turn. Too much time to ponder and write about hypothetical stuff. I really need a Japanese game to get into 43/44 so I can base my thoughts on actual experience rather than conjecture.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: obvert
The key, which I've mentioned time and again without anyone really taking it seriously, is to train the ASW pilots in low naval as well as ASW.

I do this. All my bomber units with the exception of those operating in China are trained in ASW, LowNav and Naval Search. This is all in preparation for Kami use and to counter the eventual submarine blockade.

Yep. It's multi-purpose. i now have a bunch of quite highly trained and experienced pilots to use in low nav as well as ASW and kami roles.

[SqzMyLemon]

Well, my company finally got their collective sense together and gave me a 12% raise today. Of course there had to be some confusion involved, like providing me with my pay stub which did not reflect an increase prior to informing me by letter that I did indeed receive a raise. Unfortunately, it won't be reflected in this pay period due to administrative error, but added retroactively to my next one. Sometimes I wonder about this place. [8|]

It's a good thing too, otherwise I'd have been writing my letter of resignation instead of enjoying an absolutely beautiful weather forecast here for the weekend. We are having 30 degree weather in the middle of September! We set a record high yesterday. [8D]

Oh, and there's a turn in my inbox, looks like Jocke survived his flu.

[PaxMondo]

CONGRATS!!!

[SqzMyLemon]

Back to the game.

Sept. 27/42:

Indian Ocean:

Commonwealth cruisers withdraw out of naval search range. Japanese surface forces withdraw to remain undetected. VAL's are moved to Sabang. The reinforcing of the Andamans continues.

China:

Good progress today in the ground war. Chinese forces currently under attack are are beginning to crack. Near Kienko, the Chinese suffered 162 disablements in a 1:1 attack. Unfortunately, two Chinese units will reinforce next turn so I'm withdrawing a weakened division and two tank regiments to be replaced with a fresh division. Near Sining another fresh Japanese division will replace one in need of recuperation.

Burma:

The 18th Division has reached the hex S.E. of Akyab and will attempt to flank the base and block the secondary road to Cox's Bazar. This is purely a probe to see the Allied reaction. If the Allies attempt to bomb my ground force they may run into a buzzsaw of LRCAP ordered to counter such a move. Five Sentai's are commited at 80% LRCAP and 20% Rest which seems to give me about 2-3 days before a break is needed.

[SqzMyLemon]

Sept. 28/42:

South Pacific:

Enemy CV's are spotted east of Norfolk Island heading west. Hmmm, not sure what to make of this. Is it an invasion of New Caledonia or are they simply heading to Sydney? It seems strange that Jocke would risk moving them so close to New Caledonia knowing they'd probably be spotted. Is it a pending invasion, or was Jocke just sloppy with his movement? Lets see what tomorrow brings.

China:

The usual grind. The next few turns should clarify a few things though and open up some options once the current movement of Chinese forces is complete.

Production:

A few more R&D advanacment nearing completion, including the A6M3a to 12/42.

Thoughts:

It's all about the enemy CV's. What are they up to?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

A few more R&D advanacment nearing completion, including the A6M3a to 12/42.

Best of the A6M's, but already obsolete when it arrives ...

[SqzMyLemon]

Is it me, or did Matrix need to reset their server or something, there seems to be a bunch of previous posts missing?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Is it me, or did Matrix need to reset their server or something, there seems to be a bunch of previous posts missing?

See their home page. Server farm crashed, so they reset to the backup from September 14. Everything else-including your post about your war-winning operation is gone.

Can you go over that operation again? I thought that was brilliant when I read it yesterday. [;)]

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

See their home page. Server farm crashed, so they reset to the backup from September 14. Everything else-including your post about your war-winning operation is gone.

Can you go over that operation again? I thought that was brilliant when I read it yesterday. [;)]

That must have been someone else's AAR, smartass. You know I don't do war winning operations. [:D]

[SqzMyLemon]

So looks like we lost some posts yesterday, luckily nothing was happening of note and the updates were minimal.

I'll do a quick recap of the South Pacific.

So far Jocke has knocked out the airbase at Noumea and just bombed the airbase at Luganville. Damage to Luganville was light and the field is still operational. I have Zero's based here, but they were performing LRCAP over Noumea. I've switched the orders to CAP Luganville this turn, but if the bombers return I expect to lose a few fighters.

There is still no sign of Allied shipping since they first withdrew. I just can't tell if this was a feint. I don't think it was simply a case of poor routing of a TF meant for Australia. There was no need to go to all the trouble of providing CV escort and bombing the closest airbases if it was simply a routing too close issue. I think it was an invasion TF and Jocke wanted to make sure there could be no LBA interdiction prior to moving in, so he pulled back and is waiting until he feels there is no threat.

Maybe I'll learn something more this turn.

[obvert]

Your zeros from Luganville were LR CAP over Noumea? Or do you mean you based them near to Nuomea and LR CAPed?

You guys are using the official patch that still allows the Allies pre-turn intelligence about whether planes are based at a field. I hated this and it was the major reason I wanted to upgrade. Back then I think I could have been so much more successful in jumping bombing runs but that 'feature' always let the cat out of the bag.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Your zeros from Luganville were LR CAP over Noumea? Or do you mean you based them near to Nuomea and LR CAPed?

You guys are using the official patch that still allows the Allies pre-turn intelligence about whether planes are based at a field. I hated this and it was the major reason I wanted to upgrade. Back then I think I could have been so much more successful in jumping bombing runs but that 'feature' always let the cat out of the bag.

The Zero's have been based at Luganville and were providing LRCAP over Noumea. I agree, the free intel on Japanese aircraft deployments has always been a beef with me too. I'm glad to hear the beta has changed this feature.