Rise of the Sheep! JocMeister(A) vs. Obvert(J)

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JeffroK
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JeffroK »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: JocMeister

[font="Verdana"]Question on "kosherness"[/font]
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So far I have been hitting the manpower and not targeted oil and stuff directly. Its a bit overpowered and it can certainly be discussed whether this was within the allied capabilities.

But now as I start hitting the HI I wonder if its considered "kosher" to hit specific targets. What do you guys think? I´m leaning towards doing this as I certainly think the allied would have spared no expense at trying to find and blow up something specific if they deemed it critical.

Also when doing manpower bombings I have no control over what burns. At this stage I don´t really care about HI. Destroying HI at this point won´t change anything. What I REALLY want to hit is his ability to produce airplanes.

Kosher or not? I say Kosher but would like to hear your opinions.

Gotta disagree with some of this.

First, anything you can bomb you can bomb IMO. Crap on this "overpowered" stuff. One-quarter of the Tokyo metroplex was destroyed in one night. The game doesn't come close to matching that.

On bombing specific industry. You can, but you need to do it in daylight to get anywhere and your losses will be high. Look at your screenie of Tokyo, how many aircraft factories there are. At extended range with only B-29s you won't get 80 points per raid gone or anything like that in my experience. If you were closer, like Sakhalin/Hokkaido, and could use B-17/B-24 hordes then yes, it would work. But your B-29 sortie rate does not add up against the calendar here. IMO nighttime Manpower is your best bet at this range with this few very finicky planes. Fatigue reduces faster than major damage repairs.

Did I mention you need to get CLOSER? [:)] Look at your plane queues after VE Day. Massive influx of non-B-29 4Es. They need someplace to work.

Finally, on HI. You DO care a whole lot about destroying HI. Not because he doesn't have a huge bank; he does. But because producing more is a major source of his Home Island supply pile he needs to defend himself. And to build Arms and Vehicle points he'll need to hold the mainland once you get the Chinese supplied and the Soviets wake up.

Look at your Tokyo raid. 102 HI centers gone in one night. He won't repair. Over the next year that's a pantload of supply he won't have. Multiply that.

You can't control what burns. Some will be industry you don't care about, like engines used on float fighters or something. But a lot will be LI and HI and that's his groceries. Local groceries that don't have to be moved by sea.

I'd stay night/manpower. And get closer. It's worth a LOT of LCU casualties to get 1000 VP per night, night after night.

So I'd argue to take Formosa instead of Java or Hainan and push along the Ryukyu chain to create fighter bases.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
JocMeister
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JocMeister »

Thanks for the advice and opinions guys! Really thankful! [&o][:)]

Good info on the HI bullwinkle! Did not consider supply. Have not seen even the slightest indication yet that he is running low anywhere. But who knows. That might be coming!

My prime target (and the one I´m after right now) is his Dinah factories. I´m guessing he doesn´t have that many and destroying them would save me a lot of B29s in the end! He did mass something like 40 of them over Palembang a while back and with the paper 4Es I lost 18 of them that night. Not something I can afford.

A daylight campaign is simply not possible at the moment. It might not be for another year. If I attack the "wrong target" and hit a decent sized CAP (100+) I could lose 50 B29s in a single raid. With only 40 per month I can´t do that right now.
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JocMeister
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JocMeister »

[font="Verdana"]Bingo![/font]
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Look what I just found! [:)]

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koniu
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by koniu »

Ki-46III Dinah is reckon plane, You need to look for Ki-46III KAI Dinah fighter
"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"
JocMeister
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: koniu

Ki-46III Dinah is reckon plane, You need to look for Ki-46III KAI Dinah fighter


Whooops! Thanks koniu! That could have been quite the embarrassment! [:D]
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Powloon
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:20 am

RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by Powloon »

Not sure I can really comment on the strat bombing campaign but perhaps a more general comment.

Your main problem seems to be that he has concentrated his air force (and probably navy and army) to meet your two main vectors of attack at Bangkok and Manila. Perhaps an indirect solution to this would be to open up a new front, one he can't ignore and to me that would mean NORPAC. Even a diversionary attack up here will mean he would have to respond and hopefully thin out his defences elsewhere plus give you some strat bomber bases closer to the HI. Obviously it is winter now but you have 3/4 months (I think) to get some units prepped for the area and use PP to but out Canadian/West Coast forces (if you haven't already)

With the resources that the allies get in 45 this operation could possibly be timed to coincide simultanuosly with another major objective or as a precursor to draw in his reserves whilst you hit him elsewhere. Just my 2p!
JocMeister
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JocMeister »

[font="Verdana"]12th December -44[/font]
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Pretty quiet turn.

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Luzon
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No action.

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Thailand
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Erik continues to bomb my armor. But his is hitting the wrong ones. He is bombing the ones at Udon and the ones threatening Udon Thani in central Thailand. Perhaps he hasn´t spotted the real danger yet?

Bombers rained in but the bombardments continue to do good damage!

Ground combat at 55,59 (near Tavoy)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 112239 troops, 1954 guns, 1190 vehicles, Assault Value = 4794

Defending force 189416 troops, 2241 guns, 2992 vehicles, Assault Value = 5553

Japanese ground losses:
452 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 18 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 8 (2 destroyed, 6 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

His stack can´t be in good shape after two weeks of this? He has lost 900 raw AV since the first attacks. About 400 of those in bombardments and 500 from the only deliberate attack.

At Bangkok Erik has spotted the danger and retreated back to bangkok from Ayuthia. Not sure I´m so keen on that river crossing into Bangkok anymore. I´ll wait another turn or two to see if is pulling out of Bangkok all together. That will certainly doom his superstack mk.I though as it will be hopelessly far behind own lines.

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DEI
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I again ambush a TF at Waingapoe. What the heck does he have there that is so important?! No troops this time either! [&:] This is the second TF i sink there.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 11, 44
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Night Time Surface Combat, near Waingapoe at 63,113, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E No.2, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
APD T-3, Shell hits 39, and is sunk
APD T-7, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
LST T-133, Shell hits 15, and is sunk
LST T-136, Shell hits 12, and is sunk
LST T-137, Shell hits 16, and is sunk
LST T-141, Shell hits 17, and is sunk


Allied Ships
DD Bell
DD Black
DD Boyd
DD Clarence Bronson
DD Halligan
DD Lewis Hancock
DD Hickox
DD Hunt, Shell hits 1
DD Duncan
DD Harding, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Doyle

Using a horde of float transports and attack transports I managed to pick up the 3rd OZ division from the accidental unloading yesterday. Its pretty beat up with about 70% disablements. But they will have to do anyway. Can´t wait for them to recover. In we go.

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Strategic bombing.
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Another 100 HI burns down during the night. Fires went down from 6000 to 1500. Might cause some more damage tomorrow. Another 500 VPs netted! I know we are not playing for them. But I do know Erik looks at them. So I hope this causes some agony! [:D]

I´m going to spend some time in the coming weeks getting two "rotations" of B29s up. I have 200 B29-25 in squadrons right now with another 60 coming online within 30 days. So I´ll divide them up into two groups. Hopefully I can do one attack each 4 or 5 days.

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JocMeister
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: Powloon

Not sure I can really comment on the strat bombing campaign but perhaps a more general comment.

Your main problem seems to be that he has concentrated his air force (and probably navy and army) to meet your two main vectors of attack at Bangkok and Manila. Perhaps an indirect solution to this would be to open up a new front, one he can't ignore and to me that would mean NORPAC. Even a diversionary attack up here will mean he would have to respond and hopefully thin out his defences elsewhere plus give you some strat bomber bases closer to the HI. Obviously it is winter now but you have 3/4 months (I think) to get some units prepped for the area and use PP to but out Canadian/West Coast forces (if you haven't already)

With the resources that the allies get in 45 this operation could possibly be timed to coincide simultanuosly with another major objective or as a precursor to draw in his reserves whilst you hit him elsewhere. Just my 2p!

You are absolutely right. I should have diverted forces for this a long time ago. I could easily have set aside 2-4 divisions for this without noticing it too much. Sadly my inexperience caused me to "overload" Burma and the NG advance. Right now I can´t spare any troops. All divisions are prepped and committed to the next set of objectives. Once they are taken I will get more flexibility.

This is certainly a lesson I will take with me into my next game. Learning by doing? [:)]
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Spidery
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by Spidery »

Did not consider supply. Have not seen even the slightest indication yet that he is running low anywhere. But who knows. That might be coming!

An optimistic explanation for the "missing" aircraft is that supply is running low in forward areas.
JocMeister
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: Spidery
An optimistic explanation for the "missing" aircraft is that supply is running low in forward areas.

While optimistic one can always have hope right? [:)]
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aztez
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by aztez »

What is the idea behind hitting Dinah factories? I never bothered with those in my games.

I put most pressure on 1st line fighter production and vital engine factories.

..and if you do fly daytime strikes than keep them around 10 000 feet.
JocMeister
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: aztez

What is the idea behind hitting Dinah factories? I never bothered with those in my games.

I put most pressure on 1st line fighter production and vital engine factories.

..and if you do fly daytime strikes than keep them around 10 000 feet.

To knock out his NF production. When massed they can shoot B29s almost as good as if it was daytime! [X(]
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Powloon
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by Powloon »

I think your learning by doing is proving most effective! Interesting to see that you thought you overloaded Burma. If that is the case is there any chance of releasing a few divisions here to get them going Rangoon > Cape Town > East Coast? As you can't really attack in the north for the next 3 to 4 months anyway that should be enough time to get them where they might do the most good
JocMeister
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: Powloon

I think your learning by doing is proving most effective! Interesting to see that you thought you overloaded Burma. If that is the case is there any chance of releasing a few divisions here to get them going Rangoon > Cape Town > East Coast? As you can't really attack in the north for the next 3 to 4 months anyway that should be enough time to get them where they might do the most good

My thinking about "overloading" Burma is that I could easily have moved out 4-5000 AV and used somewhere else. Knowing what I know now with a bit more experience under my belt I should have done what Speedy did and landed straight on Sumatra in early 44. I´m 95% sure it was completely empty. Some BFs and garrison forces tops. I have known the location of the KB pretty much the entire game and had I would have had probably a week before Erik could intervene. But all in all this has been a good learning experience and I´m sure I will do a lot better in my other PBEM! [:D]

If I need to move any troops I should be able to ship them through the South China Sea very shortly! No need to go around the globe! [&o]
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JocMeister
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JocMeister »

[font="Verdana"]Thailand 12th December -44[/font]
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Not too much going on. My armor is pressing on and is really beat up by airstrikes. I just ordered an attack on Ubon with the 50th Tank BDE despite 84 in disruption. Not too optimistic about that obviously! [X(]

Erik has concentrated all his airpower on the units moving east. Either he hasn´t spotted the troops moving SW towards Bangkok or he has made a mistake here. Next turn a small recon force with a bunch of Daimlers is going to cut the rail from Bangkok. Tihi!

So now Erik will have to walk out of Bangkok if he is thinking about withdrawing. [:'(]

I´m not too confident in crossing over to Bangkok. Unless he withdraws in two turns I´m going to cancel it and just surround the whole place. The 4500 AV is critical to the move East. I can´t afford shattering them.

For good or bad I have decided that this will be my spearhead into Indochina and China. This will be reinforced eventually as troops are freed up in Thailand. I have decided to skip any incursion into Malaya. It has not significance right now.

I´m feeling slightly optimistic about the situation. There are some worries left. Mainly my inability to provide air cover. Some AA units have started arriving though including some heavy 3,7 gun units.



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JocMeister
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JocMeister »

[font="Verdana"]Japanese Battlefleet is on the move[/font]
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A bit baffled by this recent movement. The BB TF at Formosa have been hopping from place to place trying to stay hidden. But Allied naval search can now reach across the South China Sea. If he wants to move around and burn fuel thats all good. [:)]

Not so sure what the other TF is up to? Moving SW?! Has he had a change of hearts about leaving the DEI without a fight? I´ll have to keep an eye on this TF. No clue what he is doing with any of the TFs at this point and that worries me.

I havn´t seen KB since that SIGINT intercept a couple of months ago. I have had A LOT of radio traffic at Shanghai though. Possible the KB is there. Its a nuisance not knowing where it is as I have to cover everything moving across the Pacific. Good thing we were allowed to use pickets as long as it had some endurance and a gun. Finally found a use for all those YMS ships! [:D]

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Lokasenna
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by Lokasenna »

I've often wondered, based on my sighting reports, if SW doesn't sometimes mean they're actually heading NE. Or even close to half the time. Best to look at both directions, IMO.
JocMeister
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JocMeister »

Haha, What the heck? [:D]

She sank like a rock!

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jonreb31
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by jonreb31 »

Ouch. Interesting enough there actually was a maritime accident at Pearl Harbor in 1944. Lucky yours wasn't as devastating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Loch_disaster
JocMeister
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: JonReb

Ouch. Interesting enough there actually was a maritime accident at Pearl Harbor in 1944. Lucky yours wasn't as devastating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Loch_disaster

Wow, Had not heard of that. Thanks for the link! It was a very interesting read! [:)]
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