[FIXED B451] Gabriel missiles--why am I missing?

[ExMachina]

Noticed that build 440 fixed another problematic missile so I thought I'd run Latakia again.

But the Gabriel I missiles still appear to be broken.

Zero hits out of 11 fired on Syrian TK P-6 boats and 6 hits out of 15 fired at the 3 Osa/Komars and at the minesweeper--so a 23% hit rate overall, and a 40% hit rate against the larger vessel. Maybe the torpedo boats ARE to small?

The misses were seemed equally divided between being off target (XX-meters) or weapons malfunctions. Longest miss was by 128m ([X(])

[kaburke61]

ORIGINAL: ExMachina

Noticed that build 440 fixed another problematic missile so I thought I'd run Latakia again.

But the Gabriel I missiles still appear to be broken.

Zero hits out of 11 fired on Syrian TK P-6 boats and 6 hits out of 15 fired at the 3 Osa/Komars and at the minesweeper--so a 23% hit rate overall, and a 40% hit rate against the larger vessel. Maybe the torpedo boats ARE to small?

The misses were seemed equally divided between being off target (XX-meters) or weapons malfunctions. Longest miss was by 128m ([X(])

When I played it, it may have nothing to do with it, but....the first ones I fired my units were moving at high speed and all missed, when I slowed them down to "loiter" (the firing units of course), they scored over 70%, it may be coincidental though

[thewood1]

No its not a coincidence...I saw the same thing with speed being some kind of factor.

[ExMachina]

That's what I originally thought too (see above) but this time I was going @ 20 knots the whole time.

Also, the hits all seemed to come nearly at once (basically, the 6 hits came after 9 straight misses). The "clumpiness" of the hits both this time and in the couple of play through-s above makes me wonder how the hit/miss probabilities and outcomes are calculated. The hits on the Osa and Komars occurred after the range had closed considerably.

FWIW, I'm willing to write off the misses on the torpedo boats--the Israelis didn't think them worth shooting missiles at either (for whatever reason)

ORIGINAL: kaburke61

ORIGINAL: ExMachina

Noticed that build 440 fixed another problematic missile so I thought I'd run Latakia again.

But the Gabriel I missiles still appear to be broken.

Zero hits out of 11 fired on Syrian TK P-6 boats and 6 hits out of 15 fired at the 3 Osa/Komars and at the minesweeper--so a 23% hit rate overall, and a 40% hit rate against the larger vessel. Maybe the torpedo boats ARE to small?

The misses were seemed equally divided between being off target (XX-meters) or weapons malfunctions. Longest miss was by 128m ([X(])

When I played it, it may have nothing to do with it, but....the first ones I fired my units were moving at high speed and all missed, when I slowed them down to "loiter" (the firing units of course), they scored over 70%, it may be coincidental though

[thewood1]

If you go back and look at the real-life success rate I posted above. My results aren't too far of history. I wonder if the TBs were to small or fast for the Gabriels to hit in real-life.

[ExMachina]

Ok, the use of Gabriels at the historical Battle of Latakia:

From what I have read of the real battle, the Isralies fired off a total of 7 Gabriels.

The first Gabriel fired was fired at extreme range at the Syrian minesweeper--it missed as the minesweeper moved out of range. The Israeli boats gave chase and fired two other Gabriels at the minesweeper--both scored direct hits.

When the Osa and Komars appeared, the Israelis closed the distance (at full speed). The Gaash fired two Gabriels at the Osa. The first one obliterated the Osa and the second Gabriel (fired slightly later than the first) no longer had a target.

The Miznak fired two Gabriels at the Komars--at least one hit (I cannot find a reference as to what happened to the other missile). The second Komar of course ultimately ran aground.

So that's 7 Gabriels that were fired at Latakia:
1 ran out of fuel,
1 ran out if target [:'(],
1 I cannot find reference to what happed to it
and
4 hit their intended target

That's an overall hit rate of 57%, and if you discount the two that never got a chance to hit, that's then a conservative hit percentage of 80% (which incidentally is also what the DB gives to the Gabriel I-s! [:)])

Also note that there were zero malfunctions reported.

Source: The Boats of Cherbourg by Abraham Rabinovitch, 1988.

[thewood1]

I am running about 50%...I have fired on average 2 at extreme range. I am missing a mostly on the TBs. I am probably running 60-70% on the Osa boats.

[thewood1]

I have re-run this battle 4 times tonight from beginning to end...

1) Gabriel missile hits are 10-20% no matter what on the TBs.
2) Gabriel missile hits on the missile boats and mine-layer are about 60-70%...consistently
3) to use the same Israeli tactics from the real world, I had to micro-manage the 76mm gun usage by the Saar. I had to hold fire on all boats until I got within 76mm range. If I didn't, both groups would have fired most of their missiles at the TBs.

Exce[t for the low hit % on TBs...my last 3 run throughs were very close to reality. Except I twice lost a Saar from the first group to torpedoes from a TB.

[ExMachina]

2) Gabriel missile hits on the missile boats and mine-layer are about 60-70%...consistently

Thanks for the data. Your experience sounds believable and correct--unfortunately, it's not what I have been getting. I re ran it yet again, concentrating only on the missile boats and minesweeper. My hit percentage this time was 3 out of 16 (and those 3 occurred sequentially, on the same target...so my hits continue to cluster together in time)

Is there anything about the random number generator that would cause it to preform differently on different systems?

[jomni]

You hit a target the first time, it gets damaged and slows down. Easier to hit for the next missile. That's how I interpret it.

[Dimitris]

This has been resolved on Build 451+.

[ExMachina]

This has been resolved on Build 451+.

Confirmed! Latakia resolves much more realistically.

Thank you!!!!!!!! [:)][:)][:)]

[thewood1]

I also noticed a huge difference in hit rates depending on how fast the time compression was. High compression seems mean a lot more misses.

[ExMachina]

Yeah, there's still that, but that issue doesn't seem to be platform/weapons specific.

Even using 1sec HiFi, the Gabriels used to miss and miss by a LOT (sometimes >120m). Historically the Gabreiels preformed very well and now (just once)) I've been able to play Latakia using the exact same number of missiles as were fired historically [:)]

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I also noticed a huge difference in hit rates depending on how fast the time compression was. High compression seems mean a lot more misses.

[Dimitris]

Yes we're still looking into that. Distinct issue and unfortunately much trickier.