Rise of the Sheep! JocMeister(A) vs. Obvert(J)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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JocMeister
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by JocMeister »

[font="Verdana"]Korea[/font]
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This has been my goal for the last two years. I realized very early that even securing the entire Okinawa chain would not be enough to bring the Japanese to their knees. There is simply not enough room there. Even maxed out there is only room for about 2000 engines. That might sound a lot but its not enough to maintain CAP, house the 4Es, provide escort, sweep, recon and search. The 4Es/2Es Fleet alone take up 3500-4000 engines. The B29s another 2000...

So I need at least one level 9 AF close to the HI. This left me with either the HI themselves, Hokkaido or Korea. Landing at the HI would mean fighting a lot of restricted troops and I lack the infrastructure to land on Hokkaido. So Korea was the only viable option. Especially considering I had already decided to secure the Philippines and Okinawa/Formosa.

The key was the battle last turn. I had to make it out of of that battle with enough so I could maintain a LOC to Korea and remove the KB and Japanese LBA as a threat. Done and done. The only thing that could have made me cancel the landing would have been if I had lost enough to be unable to to supply the troops in Korea or the loss of the Amphibs themselves. That is why I don´t consider last turn as a defeat. As long as I can land and secure a base on Korea last turn was the one that won the war.

We are landing at Moppo next turn with 5500 AV including ALL the allied armor and USMC divisions. This base has a level 5 AFs and I´m going to take a chance and not bombard as I want a CAP up ASAP. I´m confident once we are landed we can quickly secure the entire peninsula. Going by Eriks usual MO and SIGINT there isn´t much troops in Korea and he can´t bring in anything from Manchuria. His reserves would be whatever shattered unrestricted troops currently rebuilding on the HI (loads of SIGINT on those). He might try and ship those over but he simply doesn´t have the numbers anywhere to do anything ín Korea.

If we do happen to run into trouble we have the second wave of 4000 AV ready to be deployed. I think its highly unlikely they will be needed in Korea though. I have to focus on getting everything right tomorrow first of all.

So fingers crossed for tomorrow. Tomorrow is the one that really matters!

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EHansen
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by EHansen »

Joc, were you CV and CVE TFs set to follow a SC TF? Were they set to follow one another? I am trying to fully understand how these things work.
JocMeister
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: EHansen

Joc, were you CV and CVE TFs set to follow a SC TF? Were they set to follow one another? I am trying to fully understand how these things work.

They were following an ASW TF. I don´t think anyone fully understands reaction. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it don´t. I have been lucky so far to avoid the worst of it.

Can´t dodge it forever though!
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Encircled
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by Encircled »

Ouch! with the casualties, but if the landing comes off then its worth it.

I'd be worried about a mass sortie by the IJN to crush the landing though

JocMeister
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by JocMeister »

Yeah, more then worth it. As I mentioned it might look much but its only 1/7th of my total CV plane capacity. And if the landing succeed next turn the CVs are pretty much finished doing offensive missions.

Not very worried about by a IJN sortie. I think Erik is convinced I will land on Kyushu. And even if he did foresee Moppo I have 10 or so SCTF protecting the Amphibs. But of course anything can happen!
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JocMeister
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by JocMeister »

Got the replay back. Hard to tell how successful the day was. I have no idea what the hell happened but it looks like my CV fleet divided into 3 different parts and scattered all over the place. As did most of my SCTFs. None covering the Amphibs... [8|] Stuff did unload Moppo but no counter bombardment means I don´t know how much unloaded.

The amphibs took a beating but nothing crippling. As I had hoped the had unloaded the troops when struck. The CVEs damaged yesterday (I had sent them to Moppo to cover under the CV/CVE CAP that ended up somewhere else) was sunk though as well as Bunker Hill. Looks like 5-8 CVEs were lost.

On the more positive side my CL and DD TFs just tore into Eriks "Es" and DDs. I must have sunk 20-40 of them. He was already using 2-3 DDs to 3-5 Capital ships and after today he must really be scraping the barrel. Kongo, Haruna and Hei is also sunk by CV air. My CL TF led my Montpelier was the star of the show.

BB Yamato and Musashi showed up and sank 2 DDs. Expensive DD killers! [:D]

As I said its hard to really tell what happened without seeing the turn. But if the troops were indeed all unloaded as the replay seems to indicate then its "check mate" for the Japanese empire! [:)] The reason for the lack of bombardment at Moppo is unknown. Might be that Erik doesn´t have any combat troops at Moppo but thats unlikely as SIGINT and Recon indicated otherwise. More likely he has them in "rest mode". I have a RGT and a broken down ID identified via SIGINT.
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veji1
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by veji1 »

Well you went the soviet way really, but it seems to have worked : The battle will be bloody and since blood has to be given, you might as well try to give it in a way that allows you to still serve your goals. A very dark day for the USN who lost around 30 000 guys in a day, but once Korea is secured, Japan will be bombed into submission. Well done.
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Barb
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by Barb »

Well, as far as I can tell, you've got your ass kicked all over the place... Yes, you have landed your ground forces in strength at Korea, but at what cost? Just VPs for lost carriers must be great. Not to mention all the other ships that will have to go half the world to get repairs. Would you be able to resupply them regularly, given the opposition?

Also why you had moved so close to Kyushu? Wouldnt it be much better to skirt Chinese coast north of Shanghai and then turn directly east for Moppo? Or wouldnt it be even better to land further north at Chinnampo/Keijo - cutting Korea in half? That would have ment much lesser exposure to enemy airpower as well as surface combatants...
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JocMeister
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: veji1
Well you went the soviet way really, but it seems to have worked : The battle will be bloody and since blood has to be given, you might as well try to give it in a way that allows you to still serve your goals. A very dark day for the USN who lost around 30 000 guys in a day, but once Korea is secured, Japan will be bombed into submission. Well done.

Yeah, very bloody day. But given the opposing forces (KB + 3500 LBA bombers) getting away cheap was kind of unlikely. [:D]
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ny59giants
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by ny59giants »

When you had mentioned weeks ago that you had one more major op left, I thought it would be Korea. Landing in Japan is very difficult to do. The next few weeks of the war will be interested to see as what will Erik send across from Japan and what will come from China? Once August comes, the Russians will wipe out whatever is left.
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catwhoorg
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by catwhoorg »

1700 VPs from the downed aircraft, goes a logn way to help offset the VP loss of the ships as well.

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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Yeah, more then worth it. As I mentioned it might look much but its only 1/7th of my total CV plane capacity. And if the landing succeed next turn the CVs are pretty much finished doing offensive missions.

Not very worried about by a IJN sortie. I think Erik is convinced I will land on Kyushu. And even if he did foresee Moppo I have 10 or so SCTF protecting the Amphibs. But of course anything can happen!

He posted the whole CR for the "carrier day" battles. Some nice post-beta kami data in there. I think he should have gone more heavy on them if he could have. Don't know. But they LOVE APA/AKAs.
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

When you had mentioned weeks ago that you had one more major op left, I thought it would be Korea. Landing in Japan is very difficult to do. The next few weeks of the war will be interested to see as what will Erik send across from Japan and what will come from China? Once August comes, the Russians will wipe out whatever is left.

And two months until Mr. Soviet wakes up. Maybe you could arrange a hand-shake somewhere in northern Korea?
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JocMeister
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: Barb
Well, as far as I can tell, you've got your ass kicked all over the place... Yes, you have landed your ground forces in strength at Korea, but at what cost? Just VPs for lost carriers must be great. Not to mention all the other ships that will have to go half the world to get repairs. Would you be able to resupply them regularly, given the opposition?

Also why you had moved so close to Kyushu? Wouldnt it be much better to skirt Chinese coast north of Shanghai and then turn directly east for Moppo? Or wouldnt it be even better to land further north at Chinnampo/Keijo - cutting Korea in half? That would have ment much lesser exposure to enemy airpower as well as surface combatants...

Ass handed to me? Losing a couple of CVs and CVEs for Korea? Really? [X(]

I don´t think you really understand the situation. I don´t need the CVs anymore besides escorting convoys to and from Korea. I will still have around 2800 CV planes once the squadrons are replenished. That´s 3 times the size of the KB. More then enough to shepard convoys to Koera. And that is not taking into account I can put local radar guided CAP up over Moppo in 2 days. 250 P47Ns are pretty nice CAP.

What ships should I send to repair? Besides the CVs (which sank) I only have some CLs and a couple of DDs severely damaged. All can be repaired at the 50 point repair yard at Manila in under 30 days. Besides that I have some CAs with light damage and 2 old BBs hit by bombs. I won´t even bother repairing the BBs as I have no need for them.

The first day I only lost 260 VPs. Yes the CVs are worth a lot but 1700 planes are 1700 VPs. 260 VPs is about a days worth of VPs normally. Erik probably lost another 1000 planes this turn plus 3 BBs. I would be surprised if I´m very much in the negative for VPs today if at all.

Yes it would have been much better to land higher up in Korea. But 120 days ago when I started prepping the troops that wasn´t an option and China was still very much in the fight and I wasn´t too keen on boxing myself in the yellow sea between Korea and China. Certainly not going to waste another 100 days to reprepp them.

I did skirt the Chinese coast up to Moppo. The reason my CVs ended up close to the Kyushu coast was (as I stated earlier) that they reacted towards the KB.

Losing 6 CVs (2 British) and 6-8 CVEs doesn´t change anything at this stage. Had I done so in mid 44 it would have been a disaster. Now its not even an inconvenience. The only thing that matters now is weather or not I can sustain the troops in Korea. They had 170.000 supply with them which should be enough until I begin staging bombers. If I hadn´t been absolutely certain I could resupply them after the battle yesterday I wouldn´t have landed today.

Everything has its price. Am I happy I lost the CVs? Of course not. But they are there to be used. They are a tool. Going up against the KB and 3500 LBA based bombers backed up by 2500 Fighters you WILL lose stuff. If you didn´t something would be wrong with the game. But I did not lose them for nothing and Korea for a couple of CVs is a bargain. Having those CVs are not going to win the war. Having Korea will. A tool never used is a useless tool.
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JocMeister
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

When you had mentioned weeks ago that you had one more major op left, I thought it would be Korea. Landing in Japan is very difficult to do. The next few weeks of the war will be interested to see as what will Erik send across from Japan and what will come from China? Once August comes, the Russians will wipe out whatever is left.

My same conclusion. My main thinking was that landing in Korea I wouldn´t have to face all those restricted troops. Korea would give the same results without the restricted troops.

I actually don´t think Erik will send any troops to Korea. I don´t think he has any to send. Certainly not enough to stop 5500 AV worth of Allied armor and Marines! And he also knows the Russians will arrive shortly and wipe out whatever he sends anyway. I think the best he can to is to just turtle up in the HI and hope is air force can deal with the air campaign.
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JocMeister
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg
1700 VPs from the downed aircraft, goes a logn way to help offset the VP loss of the ships as well.

Yeah, as I wrote in my reply to Bard I was only 260ish VPs minus for the day. [:)]
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JocMeister
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
He posted the whole CR for the "carrier day" battles. Some nice post-beta kami data in there. I think he should have gone more heavy on them if he could have. Don't know. But they LOVE APA/AKAs.

Yeah, that was really his only hope. To cause enough damage to the Amphibs that I had to cancel the OP because of LCU losses or sink enough combat ships that sustaining the troops would be impossible in the future.

He didn´t achieve any of that so I guess that means I won? [:D]
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ny59giants
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by ny59giants »

Erik's supply situation in Korea, China, and Manchuria is going to get bad very soon. Keep the foot down on the accelerator!![:D]
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JocMeister
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by JocMeister »

A quick question.

Does anyone know roughly how many Japanese IDs are available in Korea? He can´t use Manchurian troops without paying PPs to cross the border so most likely the only thing on Korea will be what starts there and possible some unrestricted IDs recovering.

I have kind of assumed it wouldn´t be much and this seems confirmed by recon. Havn´t had time to look this up myself properly.
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catwhoorg
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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Post by catwhoorg »

Planes, pilots, (plus supply, HI points, the whole works) must start getting tight at some point.

Even if he lost just 50% of those pilots that is a whole lot. That's a baseline estimate, and the real number likely higher.
Especially as there were Kamis involved.
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