Return of the Sheep! - JocMeister(A) vs. MrKane(J)

[Spidery]

I did manage to intercept about half the AMC TF. It was a once sided affair...

Nice[:)], those AMC are worth 20-25 VP each.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Spidery

I did manage to intercept about half the AMC TF. It was a once sided affair...

Nice[:)], those AMC are worth 20-25 VP each.

Yeah, I just noticed! [:)]

[Lowpe]

I don't think AMC should be used for merchant raiding. They just die so easily. Amphib operations, even escorting tankers (especially the ones with floats) seem much better uses.

I just don't think auto victory is in the cards because Joc keeps underestimating his ability to gain victory points. Maybe 3-1 auto vic in 44 if the Allies are super cautious, but I feel confident that by then Joc will have launched several major operations...and any major fleet clashes will be near breakeven to positive Allies.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I don't think AMC should be used for merchant raiding. They just die so easily. Amphib operations, even escorting tankers (especially the ones with floats) seem much better uses.

I just don't think auto victory is in the cards because Joc keeps underestimating his ability to gain victory points. Maybe 3-1 auto vic in 44 if the Allies are super cautious, but I feel confident that by then Joc will have launched several major operations...and any major fleet clashes will be near breakeven to positive Allies.

Ah, but where would we be without the intrigue? [:D]

He's right to worry. If he doesn't consider AV then he's not playing the game and won't be using it in all of the decisions made from here on out. That is dangerous.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I just don't think auto victory is in the cards because Joc keeps underestimating his ability to gain victory points. Maybe 3-1 auto vic in 44 if the Allies are super cautious, but I feel confident that by then Joc will have launched several major operations...and any major fleet clashes will be near breakeven to positive Allies.

Well, you have better faith in my ability then I have! Thank you! [:D]

Although I may sound really pessimistic about my chances to avoid AV I still have hope. I´ve come back from the abyss before. And this time I will hopefully have more tools to do it with then last time.

But last turn didn´t help. Post coming soon.

ORIGINAL: obvert

He's right to worry. If he doesn't consider AV then he's not playing the game and won't be using it in all of the decisions made from here on out. That is dangerous.

Thanks Erik. That is my feeling too. [:)] I have no doubt at all I can come back from this and stand on the PI in early 45. My doubt is weather or not I can AV in 42 and that has to take 100% of my focus. Nothing else matters right now!

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"] Manilla falls! [/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

After suffering 500 casualties per turn from air attacks and another 400 per turn from Bombardment the defenders of Manila finally surrenders.

Grand Arch Supreme Mega Super General Jocke wows to return before 1945!

Ground combat at Manila (79,77)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 50306 troops, 867 guns, 673 vehicles, Assault Value = 1091

Defending force 44354 troops, 496 guns, 201 vehicles, Assault Value = 669

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1443

Allied adjusted defense: 247

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Manila !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1579 casualties reported
Squads: 35 destroyed, 46 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 27 disabled
Vehicles lost 12 (3 destroyed, 9 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
57319 casualties reported
Squads: 1889 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2791 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 79 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 258 (258 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 295 (295 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 37

[Bullwinkle58]

That is one consistent slope! Kind of pretty in a terrible sort of way. [:)]

You got some AMCs. Good for you. It can be done and man, does it make the movie easier to watch.

Re China, I don't have any good advice. Supply is collapsing as you knew it would. On your list of things to do I'd be taking all the arty, all the AA, and all the base forces and moving them backwards as fast as possible. If not Chungking then the mountains. Don't wait until the last minute and try to squeeze them through hexsides. They're useless without supply. The BF Support isn't, but . . .

In Navy terms, there's water coming into the hull. Save what you can. Abandon the lower compartments.

[Mike McCreery]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

That is one consistent slope! Kind of pretty in a terrible sort of way. [:)]

You got some AMCs. Good for you. It can be done and man, does it make the movie easier to watch.

Re China, I don't have any good advice. Supply is collapsing as you knew it would. On your list of things to do I'd be taking all the arty, all the AA, and all the base forces and moving them backwards as fast as possible. If not Chungking then the mountains. Don't wait until the last minute and try to squeeze them through hexsides. They're useless without supply. The BF Support isn't, but . . .

In Navy terms, there's water coming into the hull. Save what you can. Abandon the lower compartments.

I

I am playing someone extremely adverse to AA and it might make a difference in other games but I honestly believe having the 2AA units the Chineese have stationed in Chungking can make or break the war for the Chinese. Make sure you do not lose those if possible.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

I am playing someone extremely adverse to AA and it might make a difference in other games but I honestly believe having the 2AA units the Chineese have stationed in Chungking can make or break the war for the Chinese. Make sure you do not lose those if possible.

I also believe AA should be in Chungking, even if unsupplied for now. But SLs make hard choices in Chungking a must.

[Mike McCreery]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

I am playing someone extremely adverse to AA and it might make a difference in other games but I honestly believe having the 2AA units the Chineese have stationed in Chungking can make or break the war for the Chinese. Make sure you do not lose those if possible.

I also believe AA should be in Chungking, even if unsupplied for now. But SLs make hard choices in Chungking a must.

True... My opponent has been milking Chungking for a while. Irritating but part of the game mechanics. As soon as I overstack I move stuff out of the city to be destroyed. I have managed to keep supply in the city through Jan 44 this way. The AA just prevents his bombers from getting any significant hits and I dont think he wants to lose aircraft points and seasoned pilots for no reason.

[JocMeister]

Good advice. I´ll make sure to keep them there. They have been terrible beaten up during the rout. But perhaps there is some time to get some guns recovered!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

True... My opponent has been milking Chungking for a while. Irritating but part of the game mechanics. As soon as I overstack I move stuff out of the city to be destroyed. I have managed to keep supply in the city through Jan 44 this way. The AA just prevents his bombers from getting any significant hits and I dont think he wants to lose aircraft points and seasoned pilots for no reason.

I had supplied AA in Chungking in a non-SL game, and Lokasenna just strat bombed Resources down below 10 and took the hexsides. Supply game over. Not many Japan players want to destroy Chungking industry, but it certainly changes the balance.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I had supplied AA in Chungking in a non-SL game, and Lokasenna just strat bombed Resources down below 10 and took the hexsides. Supply game over. Not many Japan players want to destroy Chungking industry, but it certainly changes the balance.

According to our HRs he can bomb the industry but hasn´t. I´m thinking he want it intact. B29s doesn´t arrive until early 44 so he will get almost 2 years worth of industry before I can torch it.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I had supplied AA in Chungking in a non-SL game, and Lokasenna just strat bombed Resources down below 10 and took the hexsides. Supply game over. Not many Japan players want to destroy Chungking industry, but it certainly changes the balance.

According to our HRs he can bomb the industry but hasn´t. I´m thinking he want it intact. B29s doesn´t arrive until early 44 so he will get almost 2 years worth of industry before I can torch it.

In a SL game there's little reason to. The resurrection rule will take care of the supply you can make so long as the hexsides are closed.

[JocMeister]

True that!

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"] 17th of April -42 [/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

Actually very little has happened the last couple of turns.

------------------------
CENTPAC
------------------------
No more signs of the last AMCs. I have 6 BBs out looking for them.

------------------------
CENTPAC
------------------------
Very little action here as well. I think Tom is reorganizing for the final push. It also takes some time to move through the terrain.

------------------------
SOPAC/OZ
------------------------
A BB TF have started hitting bases on the coast.

Night Naval bombardment of Newcastle at 92,166 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

19 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Shell hits 1
BB Hiei
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
CA Ashigara
CA Nachi
CA Haguro
CA Myoko

Allied ground losses:
1092 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 13 destroyed, 69 disabled
Engineers: 13 destroyed, 20 disabled
Guns lost 37 (10 destroyed, 27 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)

Only consolation is I know how much fuel these guys burn. And Tom is sending them at full speed during the night to get back under the Brisbane CAP before morning. I did consider trying to intercept them but with 200 Nells/Betties at Brisbane and the bases around I don´t dare for now.

Tom is also hitting the industry at Sydney again. Not much I can do about it... [X(]

Afternoon Air attack on Sydney , at 90,167

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 142 [X(]
G3M2 Nell x 81

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 2 damaged

Manpower hits 17
Fires 2602

------------------------
Allied offensive!
------------------------
First plans are being laid. Feels good to plan something on your own rather then basing the planning on what Tom might do. I´ll share the details on this eventually but for now I´ll keep them to myself. ETA: 40-60 days.

[Lowpe]

I would pull your BB back from the centpac. He knows they are there, and they sink fast in the open ocean.[:)]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I would pull your BB back from the centpac. He knows they are there, and they sink fast in the open ocean.[:)]

Yeah, I´m going to RTB in a turn or two. They guzzled up all their fuel anyway! [:)]

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"] Fall of China [/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

Now the route will turn into a full flight. Resistance is no longer meaningful. Tom moves in with 75k troops and simply annihilates the defenders. I had just gotten the troops out and dropped below the 40k SL. This probably gave me a trickle of supply but when there is nothing to be had there is nothing to be had. He didn´t even need to bomb from the air this time.

Ground combat at 80,40 (near Kienko)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 56983 troops, 877 guns, 767 vehicles, Assault Value = 1340

Defending force 38196 troops, 160 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 762

Japanese adjusted assault: 824

Allied adjusted defense: 208 [8|]

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
510 casualties reported
Squads: 22 destroyed, 68 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
16097 casualties reported
Squads: 516 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 500 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 15 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 23 (22 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 6

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

I had 3 good IDs, level 3 forts in x3 terrain and gets my AV adjusted from 750 to 250.

This is the 3rd time I suffer this fate in China. It really doesn´t seem to matter much what you do. Supply simply runs out eventually and then its game over.

The plan is basically to evacuate as much as I can from China and move into the mountains. Since there is no supply I can try and massively overstack low SL hexes and hope the 25% AV will be enough. I will leave some token forces at Chunking and in Southern China but not much.

Don´t want to think about how many VPs Tom will gain from all the bases. [:(]

Bah, foul mood after this. [:(] Its one thing knowing how it will end but quite different actually getting there.

[HansBolter]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but I've been pointing out for years that allowing the bombing of unused airfields to destroy the supply of armies deployed in field created an easymode game for the Japanese player in China.

Many have tried to make China tougher to conquer, but have failed. I believe they will continue to fail until this mechanism is altered.

Unfortunately every time I bring it up I get lambasted by the entire community and shouted down by a flurry of "it has to be that way...stupid" responses.

From my perspective, nothing about destroying the supply of field armies by bombing unused airbases has ever made a lick of sense.





steps back down from soap box